Class 42 Warship D800-D812 variations

[andyman7]

I'm working on a conversion of a Mainline Class 42 Warship to one of the early disc fitted members D800-D812. It came already started so I have carried on with previous work but as acquired nothing had been done to address a number of bodyside variations to grilles, cab kick-plates etc so I have made a start on these. Information I have obtained states that a further difference was that D800-D812 had a circular panel over the boiler room but without more information or pictures I have nothing to go on to represent this feature - can anyone help?

 

Pic shows model before I started on the bodyside changes...

Edited April 9, 2023 by andyman7

[Halvarras]

15 hours ago, andyman7 said:

I'm working on a conversion of a Mainline Class 42 Warship to one of the early disc fitted members D800-D812. It came already started so I have carried on with previous work but as acquired nothing had been done to address a number of bodyside variations to grilles, cab kick-plates etc so I have made a start on these. Information I have obtained states that a further difference was that D800-D812 had a circular panel over the boiler room but without more information or pictures I have nothing to go on to represent this feature - can anyone help?

 

Pic shows model before I started on the bodyside changes...

 

An elevated photo on the Cornwall Railway Society website taken over the wall at Penzance may help - you won't need to scroll down too far to find it:

 

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/penzance-area-to-marazion.html

 

Note that the circular boiler compartment panel is off-centre compared to the in-line roof fan grilles. I've made a few of these in the past for D600 and D800 Warships, some from 10thou plasticard and others using self-adhesive paper (plasticard is easier as it can be drilled and filed - paper has to be cut right first time, although gives a flusher finish) - I used a compass to draw a 14mm diameter circle (estimated overall size), then two more inside this at 12 & 13mm; lines were drawn dividing it into four quarters, then again dividing it into eight segments; within each a 'curved sausage' shaped opening was then drawn between the 12 & 13mm lines and formed by drilling holes at each end, cutting away most of the infill with a scalpel and filing to shape with mini and 'rat-tail' files. Yes it's fiddly but AFAIK an etched item has never been available. Once glued to the roof you could open it up properly by drilling and filing the eight openings through the roof but life is too short so I painted them black instead (you could attach it over one circular hole which would look great but IMO be too fragile without additional support - more fiddliness!)

Both Warships in the Penzance view have short nose-top handrails, identifying them as two of the first three as built (neither appear to have long thin nameplates so these must be D801/2). Since your model already has long handrails perhaps avoid these three, which also had cab door handrails with top and bottom ends curved in, but not difficult to amend if desired.

Other differences between D800-12 and the rest include the twin access panels on the lower cabsides being removable not hinged along the top edge; side engine room grilles having single not twin support struts (aarrgghh grilles! - too much work to do neatly and life still too short!); and a plainer appearance to the lower side valances with fewer obvious openings. It depends how far you want to go....🙂

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Other differences between D800-12 and the rest include the twin access panels on the lower cabsides being removable not hinged along the top edge; side engine room grilles having single not twin support struts (aarrgghh grilles! - too much work to do neatly and life still too short!); and a plainer appearance to the lower side valances with fewer obvious openings. It depends how far you want to go....🙂

Thanks! As it happens I have had a go at the grilles, carefully shaving off the twin supports and I will use Microstrip to add a central support. Lower bodyside valances and openings have been filled where needed and will be re-scribed.

As is always the way, what started off looking like a 'quick' job is taking longer and longer but as I get into it I'm enjoying trying to re-create a variation that is unlikely to be fulfilled RTR anytime soon.

[John Tomlinson]

FWIW I think the conversion work done on your model has used the Craftsman conversion kit, sadly long gone although they do crop up on ebay.

 

This is indicated by the white metal cast buffers and also the valance under the buffer beam.

 

Whoever did it appears to have made a very good job of matching in the new lower cabfront with the original moulding, maybe that was you?

 

Not a bad idea at all of the person to respray the whole thing, as all you'll need is a bit of off-white(?) transfer lining to do the bodyside runs.

 

If you weren't aware, some if not all of these received the small yellow warning panel before the fronts were changed to standard.

 

Good luck!

 

John.

[Halvarras]

5 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

FWIW I think the conversion work done on your model has used the Craftsman conversion kit, sadly long gone although they do crop up on ebay.

 

This is indicated by the white metal cast buffers and also the valance under the buffer beam.

 

Whoever did it appears to have made a very good job of matching in the new lower cabfront with the original moulding, maybe that was you?

 

Not a bad idea at all of the person to respray the whole thing, as all you'll need is a bit of off-white(?) transfer lining to do the bodyside runs.

 

If you weren't aware, some if not all of these received the small yellow warning panel before the fronts were changed to standard.

 

Good luck!

 

John.

 

Yes I agree, it looks like the Craftsman kit.

 

It appears that all of the disc headcode locos received yellow panels except (because there always seems to be an exception*) D803 'Albion' which was still running in beaten-up plain green livery as late as October 1964 and was modified early the following year.

When these 13 were modified to headcode panels D801/4 retained the centre lamp bracket and headboard clips, D806/9/12 retained just the lamp bracket and the rest retained neither. 'Book of the Warships' enables these to be listed in order of date of modification, and guess what? - D801/4 were done first, then D806/9/12, and then the rest - so Swindon clearly decided to simplify the task as they worked their way through them! (Sorry, can't list them in correct numerical order right now as can't access the book.)

 

*Think D6301, D6109, D6123, D5701, D5909, etc!

[Hal Nail]

17 hours ago, Halvarras said:

neither appear to have long thin nameplates so these must be D801/2

Funnily enough the website is suggesting the far one is D800 but I think I'm inclined to agree with you that the name looks shorter.

[Halvarras]

Another point about the first three, confirmed by the photo - they didn't have the 'catwalks' over the fan grilles.

[Halvarras]

Regarding the boiler compartment roof panel and because a picture is worth a thousand words (well, a few dozen), here's one I made earlier which may yet find its way onto a similar conversion (I knew I had it somewhere......) - this is 10thou plasticard, it may be possible to create it from 5thou for a flusher appearance but it would be very close to cutting, drilling and filing paper.........perhaps not impossible, I've never tried it!

Looks like it still needs a bit of tidying-up (thank you, digital photography, grrrr!)

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Halvarras
Punctuation......it's very important y'know!

[andyman7]

I've been doing some more work on the Warship. What started out as 'oh, this will be easy, someone else has already done the hard work' has morphed into a more substantial project as I try and reflect the various differences in the early build locos. Thanks @Halvarras and @John Tomlinson for your comments above.

I realised that an aid to creating a more correct roof was actually the old Trix model - it may have major scale shortcomings but is a contemporary model of one of the first 12 and the roof moulding reflects the lack of roof grille walkways and that circular plate thingy (!). The other act of madness has been to try and represent the single central strap to the side grilles since I can't 'unsee' them now that I know about them.
So off have come the etched roof grilles fitted by the previous modeller - I am going to use a pair of class 31 etched roof grilles as they are about the right diameter. I have fitted the new circular panel and there is more filler in the roof area. I'll try and drill the vents into it once it's set and tidied up.  Microstrip has been used for the vent straps - once set I will shave these down a bit.

[John Tomlinson]

These "short projects" never quite end up like that, and you're probably going to end up with one of the most accurate early Warships ever!

 

I'm a bit confused about one thing from what's been written above. Are the roof grilles without walkways just the first three, or the first thirteen? It would be good to be clear for the record as I suspect this thread will be looked back on as a reference in times to come.

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

[andyman7]

54 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

These "short projects" never quite end up like that, and you're probably going to end up with one of the most accurate early Warships ever!

 

I'm a bit confused about one thing from what's been written above. Are the roof grilles without walkways just the first three, or the first thirteen? It would be good to be clear for the record as I suspect this thread will be looked back on as a reference in times to come.

 

I haven't yet got a straight answer on the roof grilles - the information I have says that the Swindon machines had them as built and the NBL machines didn't, but that they got swapped over during service - but from the only roof level photo I have it's clear that at least the first three didn't have them and they were Swindon-built. As the Trix model doesn't have them I'm tempted to stick with no walkway but any help would be appreciated.

[John Tomlinson]

3 hours ago, andyman7 said:

I haven't yet got a straight answer on the roof grilles - the information I have says that the Swindon machines had them as built and the NBL machines didn't, but that they got swapped over during service - but from the only roof level photo I have it's clear that at least the first three didn't have them and they were Swindon-built. As the Trix model doesn't have them I'm tempted to stick with no walkway but any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks for the answer. If I come across anything useful I'll post it.

 

John.

Edited May 22, 2023 by John Tomlinson
typo

[Halvarras]

On 22/05/2023 at 10:54, John Tomlinson said:

These "short projects" never quite end up like that, and you're probably going to end up with one of the most accurate early Warships ever!

 

I'm a bit confused about one thing from what's been written above. Are the roof grilles without walkways just the first three, or the first thirteen? It would be good to be clear for the record as I suspect this thread will be looked back on as a reference in times to come.

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

 

According to 'The Book of the Warships' (Irwell Press), regarded by many as the 'bible' on these locomotives, page 101 states that only the first three were built without raised walkways.

Generally speaking the Swindon locos had the fan grilles themselves nearly flush with the roof with the walkways standing proud and NBL machines had the grilles raised to be flush with the walkways, but inevitably there were exceptions - D832/66/67 had the NBL raised type (D832 still has them) from new while D833 - the first of the NBL build - had the Swindon flush pattern. At withdrawal D861 had a pair of Swindon grilles and D834 had one of each, both probably having run like this since works attention in 1963.

[D 844]

On the first three Warships the cab roof was different too, on some angles hard to spot but it was shaped like the main roof almost to the front of the cab. There is a useful shot on Flickr, just tap in D801 CJ 1966. 

[andyman7]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

 

According to 'The Book of the Warships' (Irwell Press), regarded by many as the 'bible' on these locomotives, page 101 states that only the first three were built without raised walkways.

Generally speaking the Swindon locos had the fan grilles themselves nearly flush with the roof with the walkways standing proud and NBL machines had the grilles raised to be flush with the walkways, but inevitably there were exceptions - D832/66/67 had the NBL raised type (D832 still has them) from new while D833 - the first of the NBL build - had the Swindon flush pattern. At withdrawal D861 had a pair of Swindon grilles and D834 had one of each, both probably having run like this since works attention in 1963.

Thanks for that, I can re-fit the etched grilles with walkways once I have tidied up the roof as my chosen subject will be either D805 or D806 - I have images of both still disc fitted with small yellow warning panels which is the livery I want to use.

[Halvarras]

3 hours ago, D 844 said:

On the first three Warships the cab roof was different too, on some angles hard to spot but it was shaped like the main roof almost to the front of the cab. There is a useful shot on Flickr, just tap in D801 CJ 1966. 

 

I've noticed that too - as you say, hard to spot but in standard front 3/4 views it manifests as 'lumps' in the roofline above the windscreens. The Swindon designers must have decided the 'lumps' looked somewhat inelegant and smoothed them away on the production locos!

 

D800 carried only green livery; D801 carried green and maroon; D802 carried green, maroon and blue. D801 was withdrawn first, in August 1968, followed by D800/2 two months later. I can still remember seeing a maroon D802 passing Carn Brea near Redruth on an up parcels in late August 1967, and the next down train being the 'Cornish Riviera' headed by Hymek D7029! I also recall 'copping' D800 at a foot crossing on an up train between Chacewater and Truro and thinking it was D880, quickly realising that was impossible and a missing chunk of paint had altered its identity on the leading corner! (Missing chunks of paint were nothing new on Warships in the late 1960s, some were really bad, e.g. there was nothing 'Magnificent' about D828 by the end of 1968!)

Edited May 23, 2023 by Halvarras

[andyman7]

The Mainline conversion is making progress slowly - it is now numbered and named for D806 Cambrian as I have a good black and white image of this loco from 1965. It will feature the heavily careworn appearance of the loco as depicted in that photo, complete with major loss to the eggshell line on the bodyside. The weathering is at an early stage.
I had a spare scrap Mainline bodyshell so have reinstated the original glazing as the part-converted model came with Lima glazing fitted. One end had full detailing but I had to scratchbuild much of the detail on the other end; the roof layout has been modified and I've had a go at representing the single central internal grille strapping that the disc fitted locos had.

The Stencil Frames have been made up from microstrip. 

The project has reached the fun stage of finishing, completing and neatening the paintwork and the weathering which will involve many evenings of adding light, shade and colour tones (and adjusting the cab interior...). 

Edited July 11, 2023 by andyman7