Wrenn Brighton Belle, much abused looking to restore

[mikesndbs]

Hi, wonder if anyone can help.

Just got this very much abused Belle and am in need of a starting position to get her back to.

Does anyone have a copy of the service manual?

 

The motor bogies seem very oddly suspended on an arm that only attaches via one screw, strange washers between bogies and coach body etc.

Any tips greatly appriciated. 

Always wanted one and am desperate to get her back to life.

 

 

[Type 2]

This isn't specific to the Pullman but may help you out...

 

 

 

[mikesndbs]

Thanks, looks much better to be honest, the Belle uses class 20 motor bogies

[naugytrax]

Mike, from your photo it seems clear that you have the Wrenn version of the "Belle" (W3006/7?), which has a quite different mechanism from the earlier Hornby-Dublo version and, as you say, uses the same power bogie as the Class 20  Bo-Bo. I took mine apart to compare with yours (well, mine has been modified a bit to improve the electrical pickup) and this what I found:
The power car is held together by three bolts, one short, one medium and one long.
The short bolt passes up through the central hole on the bogie-linking bar (nearest the power bogie) and into a threaded brass stud molded inside the roof of the body at the cab end. The bolt carries a solder tag with a wire connected to the insulated brush on the motor. To tighten this bolt you have to work through the rectangular hole in the underframe.
The medium-length bolt passes up through the central hole in the underframe, through a brass spacing tube, through the end hole of the bogie-linking bar into a brass stud under the center of the roof. Thus there are two bolts holding the bogie-linking bar to the body and it's quite rigid.
The long bolt forms the pivot for the trailing bogie. From the bottom up, it has a washer and a short (3/8 inch) spacing tube which goes up through the bogie, through the boss at the end of the underframe, through a longer spacing tube and into the brass stud at the non-cab end of the roof. 
The brass studs at the outer ends of the roof are connected on my model by an inductor for RF interference suppression. This could probably be replaced by a plain wire nowadays. The long pivot bolt completes the electrical circuit from the non-insulated trailing wheels and bogie, the two outer brass studs, and the wire to the insulated motor brush, thence through the motor and to the non-insulated brush through the metal bogie and its non-insulated wheels.
While you've got it apart, you might want to install a flexible wire between the trailing bogie and the brass stud at the non-cab end. I found that this makes the continuity more reliable. (I also fitted electrical wipers on the insulated trailing wheels, and on the adjoining parlor car, but you may find this extra work to be unnecessary.)

Good luck!

  Humphrey
 

[sandwich station]

1 hour ago, naugytrax said:

Mike, from your photo it seems clear that you have the Wrenn version of the "Belle" (W3006/7?), which has a quite different mechanism from the earlier Hornby-Dublo version 

 

A serious question. Was there a Dublo Brighton Belle?

[bmb5dnp1]

2 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

A serious question. Was there a Dublo Brighton Belle?

The Brighton Belle is a Wrenn creation not Hornby Dublo, perhaps confusing it with the suburban EMU ?

 

Dave

[mikesndbs]

7 hours ago, naugytrax said:

Mike, from your photo it seems clear that you have the Wrenn version of the "Belle" (W3006/7?), which has a quite different mechanism from the earlier Hornby-Dublo version and, as you say, uses the same power bogie as the Class 20  Bo-Bo. I took mine apart to compare with yours (well, mine has been modified a bit to improve the electrical pickup) and this what I found:
The power car is held together by three bolts, one short, one medium and one long.
The short bolt passes up through the central hole on the bogie-linking bar (nearest the power bogie) and into a threaded brass stud molded inside the roof of the body at the cab end. The bolt carries a solder tag with a wire connected to the insulated brush on the motor. To tighten this bolt you have to work through the rectangular hole in the underframe.
The medium-length bolt passes up through the central hole in the underframe, through a brass spacing tube, through the end hole of the bogie-linking bar into a brass stud under the center of the roof. Thus there are two bolts holding the bogie-linking bar to the body and it's quite rigid.
The long bolt forms the pivot for the trailing bogie. From the bottom up, it has a washer and a short (3/8 inch) spacing tube which goes up through the bogie, through the boss at the end of the underframe, through a longer spacing tube and into the brass stud at the non-cab end of the roof. 
The brass studs at the outer ends of the roof are connected on my model by an inductor for RF interference suppression. This could probably be replaced by a plain wire nowadays. The long pivot bolt completes the electrical circuit from the non-insulated trailing wheels and bogie, the two outer brass studs, and the wire to the insulated motor brush, thence through the motor and to the non-insulated brush through the metal bogie and its non-insulated wheels.
While you've got it apart, you might want to install a flexible wire between the trailing bogie and the brass stud at the non-cab end. I found that this makes the continuity more reliable. (I also fitted electrical wipers on the insulated trailing wheels, and on the adjoining parlor car, but you may find this extra work to be unnecessary.)

Good luck!

  Humphrey
 

 

Humphrey I am indebted to you!

Really, really helpful information and answers several of my questions.

I'm working on it today so very timely as well.

The motor magnet is completely dead! never come across that before, so that will need recharging later.

 

Many thanks, regards Mike

[mikesndbs]

A little bit of clarification.

 

On the trailing bogie which hole does the bolt go through the one nearest the coupling of furthest, and why is there two options lol

 

Is there a washer between the short spacer/ underside of bogie and chassis mount as shown in my picture here? I find the bogie can't rotate enouth without?

 

Assuming the bolt that is fixed to the centre hole in the motor arm is a short one, maybe 10mm? I don't seem to have that in my parts so far but can easily get one?

 

Many thanks again

 

 

 

[naugytrax]

Dave: quite right, somehow I got it confused with the H-D green EMU (2250), referenced in the Servicing Leaflet posted above. A temporary memory glitch; sorry, guys.
Mike: I believe there should be a washer on top of the trailing bogie. I may have removed it from mine when I fitted smaller wheels.
The pivot bolt for the trailing bogie goes through the hole nearest the coupler. The other hole may be for use in the Class 20 loco?
Yes, that's the short bolt.
My magnet was weak, too. Rather than pay to have it remagnetized, I replaced it with a Neodimium alloy type.
 

[SRman]

1 hour ago, naugytrax said:

... snipped ...

My magnet was weak, too. Rather than pay to have it remagnetized, I replaced it with a Neodimium alloy type.
 

 

As a slight aside, I don't have any problems with the magnet in my Wrenn Belle unit, but putting it back together after disassembly was always a pain, resulting in much cursing and swearing on my part. The assembly really wasn't well thought out by Wrenn.

While mine doesn't get much use nowadays, the magnet seems to have remained useable, but that in my so-called SR EMU was weak, so I replaced it with a neo-magnet ... that was a mistake! Doing that in the 5 BEL is OK because it has plastic sides and body, but the tinplate EMU sides are attracted to the extra strong magnet. It works brilliantly in a straight line, but the moment it encounters a curve, one side or the other clamps itself to the side of the motor bogie and causes it to derail.

One thing I did find on my old layout with the Wrenn Belle unit was it would cause creep in a dead section every time it went over a Peco diamond crossing. The Wrenn wheel treads were wide enough to connect the dead rail to the live power as the unit passed over the crossing. Anything parked in the dead side track would creep forwards each time the Belle passed over the crossing until either I noticed it had moved, or the stored item collided with the side of the Brighton Belle as it passed. 😆
 

One other curiosity I noticed quite by accident was that the plastics used on the Belle motor cars were different from what was used on the centre cars, even those with the correct names for the unit. This became evident when they passed under an ultra violet light, and the glow from the brown plastic on the driving cars was quite different from the trailers.

Edited June 13, 2023 by SRman

[mikesndbs]

She lives! more on that later

Edited June 13, 2023 by mikesndbs
random p

[Il Grifone]

I've used the full size neodymium magnets in the past but they are really too strong. Nowadays, I use two 6mm cube magnets padded out with steel washers. These are about as strong as the originals and have the Grifone friendly attribute of costing a lot less than the full size neos.

A couple stuck on the Tri-ang motor bogies will cure tired versions of these things.

There are also ring versions (check the direction of magnetisation) which will fit around the screw in Tri-ang X.03s and X.04s.

Tri-ang magnets seem much more reliable than Dublo or is that just me?

Edited June 14, 2023 by Il Grifone

[mikesndbs]

Wrenn Brighton Belle [Restoration] Maintenance and Electrical improvements