What were the last operational Hymeks on BR in Green SYP livery?

[Rail-Online]

I am sure I have seen a list somewhere (the old RMWeb?) of which Hymeks continued in green livery until withdrawn............

 

I remember D7005 at Swansea High Street about 1971.........

 

Cheers Tony

[br2975]

13 Hymeks were withdrawn whilst still in green livery, namely; D7002, 7003, 7005, 7006, 7008, 7013, 7014, 7020, 7021, 7024, 7025, 7054, 7060.

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D7005 & D7054 were the last to survive in GSYP, 

D7005 was withdrawn in July 1972,

D7054 in December 1972

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The last examples in GFYE, and withdrawn in that livery, were D7013, 7014, 7020.

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My photo shows D7005 waiting time at Cardiff General on Saturday 28th. August, 1971 with 1O61 the 11:00 Cardiff - Portsmouth Harbour.

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As an aside, my spotting notes for the day I took the photo above, are as follows:-

My notes for that day show the following locos recorded:-

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Saturday, 28th. August, 1971Cardiff – Newport

Cardiff General

129, 147,

1048,

1594, 1611, 1618, 1630,

3747, 3756, 4019,

6975,

7005, 7086,

(51310+59477+51325),
Cardiff, Newtown Goods.

3260, 3264, 3268,

Marshfield

1603,

7016,

Newport, Ebbw Jct.

1068,

1670,

3355, 4021,

5137, 7624, 7625+7677,

6930, 6979,

Newport, High St.

49, 156,

1672, 1944,

3762,

6527,

(50695+59588+50739), (51080+59292+51052), (51302+59469+51317), (51310+59477+51325), (51341+59493+51383),

Cardiff General

32, 70, 90,

1594, 1599, 1609, 1618, 1623, 1625, 1644, 1647, 1649, 1665, 1668, 1710, 1739, 1919, 1925,

7039,

(50691+59277+50728), (50842+59350+50895),

.

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Edited June 14, 2023 by br2975

[Rail-Online]

Thanks for that - great photo!

 

Not many '69ers' in your spotting notes...........

 

Tony

[br2975]

49 minutes ago, Rail-Online said:

 

 

Not many '69ers' in your spotting notes...........

 

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It was a Saturday - most local freight stopped for the weekends.

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Had we gone to places like Radyr, I may have found 12 - 15 "six-eighters" , with another 5 at Aberdare, a couple at Barry, and up to half a dozen at Aberbeeg.

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But, I wouldn't have copped any had I chosen to go to those places, hence when passing Ebbw Junction on the train, getting down numbers like '5137'  was mpre important.

[bécasse]

2 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

Thanks for that - great photo!

 

They seem to have overdone the weathering a bit. Surely the real thing never looked like that in service.

[The Johnster]

That and worse!  The WR hydraulics were all aluminium bodied, which apparently had an effect on the primer undercoat, and the chemicals used in the carriage washers did it no good at all.  This was a shame, as the Hymeks especially looked superb in the two-tone green syp 'Deltic' livery to my mind, until the paintwork faded and scuffed up.  I liked them in the transition 1966 Rail Blue with syp and white window surrounds as well, a livery which also suited the 52s.

[Phil Bullock]

25 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

That and worse!  The WR hydraulics were all aluminium bodied, which apparently had an effect on the primer undercoat, and the chemicals used in the carriage washers did it no good at all.  This was a shame, as the Hymeks especially looked superb in the two-tone green syp 'Deltic' livery to my mind, until the paintwork faded and scuffed up.  I liked them in the transition 1966 Rail Blue with syp and white window surrounds as well, a livery which also suited the 52s.

Afraid the hydraulics were not built with aluminium bodies. For the sake of this discussion they are best divided in to 3 categories:

 

1. The Early NBL builds …. D6xx and possibly D63xx. A traditional steel heavy body with the exceptions of the cabs which were fabricated from aluminium sections…. Trade name of Alpac IIRC

 

2. All D800 Warships and Westerns …. Stressed steel body coated with prestolinth filler to get a smooth surface.

 

3. Hymeks …. All steel bodies of traditional steel construction.

 

It was the chemicals in the washing plants … Exmover … that did the damage plus if any water got under the prestolinth on the stressed steel bodies steel would rust and big chunks would peel/fall off …. Especially if assisted by platform end spotters! 

[Halvarras]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I liked them in the transition 1966 Rail Blue with syp and white window surrounds as well, a livery which also suited the 52s.

 

Me too - after the attractive green livery the all-over blue applied to D7004/7/51 was dull beyond words (not forgetting that D7033 had been correctly turned out in blue full yellow livery before these) and the reinstatement of the white window surrounds  - a rare case of an element of green livery being carried over to corporate blue, I'm surprised they got away with it at the time TBH - created an instant transformation. AFAIK D7004 had the white added first, to its boring all-over blue (so photos of it like this are extremely rare) and in fact this loco managed to carry five of the six Hymek liveries, a remarkable achievement - it only missed out on green full yellow but there was no possibility of it ever carrying that one as it went blue long before Gfy appeared. Interestingly by April 1967 Swindon had begun turning out other hydraulics in blue full yellow but there seemed to be a lag in the Hymeks doing likewise, so somebody in the paint shop must have been reluctant to let go of the blue small yellow white window livery!

Unfortunately the early blue paint didn't wear well and many (most/all?) of those withdrawn in this livery were in a truly appalling condition at the end - much worse than any of the green ones. Some blue full yellow examples, e.g. 7068, weren't much better. Much as I liked Hymeks I felt withdrawal at least put them out of their misery. It was a sad and premature end for my favourite class, although Old Oak Common's repainting of a few survivors during their final couple of years was welcome. Which reminds me, the 50th anniversary of the 'Hymek Swansong' special, which I was on and was itself premature, now looms large (22nd September 1973) - there I go again, reminiscing and making myself feel old....... 😕!!

[BrushVeteran]

My contribution to this thread.

As Hymeks were local to me I too was very sad when they were mostly switched off.  At least I managed to capture most of them on film!

[BrushVeteran]

Plus a few more including the scabbiest blue syp one, D7052 which had almost worn down to its original livery when I photographed it!

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, BrushVeteran said:

Plus a few more including the scabbiest blue syp one, D7052 which had almost worn down to its original livery when I photographed it!

Cracking photos as ever ! Thanks for sharing on here. I think we were all sad when they went..,lively locos, great performers on the Cotswolds line to Worcester

[br2975]

1 hour ago, Phil Bullock said:

Cracking photos as ever ! Thanks for sharing on here. I think we were all sad when they went..,lively locos, great performers on the Cotswolds line to Worcester

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I have always felt the 'Hymek' was the best all round WR diesel hydraulic.

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Go anywhere, do anything a real 'maid of all work'.

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Me too - after the attractive green livery the all-over blue applied to D7004/7/51 was dull beyond words (not forgetting that D7033 had been correctly turned out in blue full yellow livery before these) and the reinstatement of the white window surrounds  - a rare case of an element of green livery being carried over to corporate blue, I'm surprised they got away with it at the time TBH - created an instant transformation. AFAIK D7004 had the white added first, to its boring all-over blue (so photos of it like this are extremely rare) and in fact this loco managed to carry five of the six Hymek liveries, a remarkable achievement - it only missed out on green full yellow but there was no possibility of it ever carrying that one as it went blue long before Gfy appeared. Interestingly by April 1967 Swindon had begun turning out other hydraulics in blue full yellow but there seemed to be a lag in the Hymeks doing likewise, so somebody in the paint shop must have been reluctant to let go of the blue small yellow white window livery!

Unfortunately the early blue paint didn't wear well and many (most/all?) of those withdrawn in this livery were in a truly appalling condition at the end - much worse than any of the green ones. Some blue full yellow examples, e.g. 7068, weren't much better. Much as I liked Hymeks I felt withdrawal at least put them out of their misery. It was a sad and premature end for my favourite class, although Old Oak Common's repainting of a few survivors during their final couple of years was welcome. Which reminds me, the 50th anniversary of the 'Hymek Swansong' special, which I was on and was itself premature, now looms large (22nd September 1973) - there I go again, reminiscing and making myself feel old....... 😕!!

My bold added.  The window surrounds on the Hymeks were not white.  They were pale 'duck egg' grey as can be seen in the photos posted above

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, br2975 said:

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I have always felt the 'Hymek' was the best all round WR diesel hydraulic.

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Go anywhere, do anything a real 'maid of all work'.

Absolutely! Every working everywhere…. Well except a heavy unbraked coal train down the Valleys perhaps …. 

[Halvarras]

21 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

My bold added.  The window surrounds on the Hymeks were not white.  They were pale 'duck egg' grey as can be seen in the photos posted above

 

I am aware of this (and repainted my Tri-ang model from white to grey c1970......actually BR coaching stock grey which was a bit dark), I'm sure most Hymek fans are, however white has generally been used as 'shorthand' during Hymek livery discussions down the years because "blue small yellow panel with pale 'duck egg' grey window surrounds" is too long-winded! 'Grey' instead of 'white' would also be inadequate, it would have to be 'light grey'..........which is still longer than 'white'! I think it's probably too late now to insist on making the change, we know what we mean, even if Hornby and Heljan don't 😎!

[The Stationmaster]

4 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

 

I am aware of this (and repainted my Tri-ang model from white to grey c1970......actually BR coaching stock grey which was a bit dark), I'm sure most Hymek fans are, however white has generally been used as 'shorthand' during Hymek livery discussions down the years because "blue small yellow panel with pale 'duck egg' grey window surrounds" is too long-winded! 'Grey' instead of 'white' would also be inadequate, it would have to be 'light grey'..........which is still longer than 'white'! I think it's probably too late now to insist on making the change, we know what we mean, even if Hornby and Heljan don't 😎!

Interestingly the original Hornby (?Triang Hornby) Hymeks were correct!

21 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Absolutely! Every working everywhere…. Well except a heavy unbraked coal train down the Valleys perhaps …. 

Accotrding to Joe Field, the WR Chief Traction Inspector, who was involved in the trials the Hymeks performed quite well when tested against the EE Type 3 and in some situations were actually better  due to what amounted to having eight coupled wells.

 

Going down hill is an intereting point as yopur comment suggests that the loco was braking the load - and that was something no sane Driver would have donme on the worst gradients because the braj ke blocks would have been burning nicely before they disintegrated completely.  Even on light trains, where the loco had to do some braking, the rate of brake block wear on the EE Type 3s could be phenomenal and on one of our Radyr turns the blocks only lasted a couple of days , and that was a train which never loaded more than a couple of hundred tons trailing but had insufficient wagon brakes to hold the train.

 

Coming f down from Cwmbargoe with 1,000 tons the loco brake wasn't touched at all after the train had started from the top.  The train somply (usually) stopped at Nelson at the bottom because it had run out of help from gravity and the wagin brakes were still biting - even tho the brake blocks were on fire on at least part of the train.  A Hymek could have done that just as easily!

[Halvarras]

4 hours ago, BrushVeteran said:

Plus a few more including the scabbiest blue syp one, D7052 which had almost worn down to its original livery when I photographed it!

 

I believe D7002/54/60 were the only Hymeks to be withdrawn (in green) without having collected the lower cab door grabhandles. All blue ones got them.

 

D7052 compared to the two green ones above illustrates my point about the poor durability of the blue small yellow panel with pale 'duck egg' grey window surrounds livery............nope, that's not going to catch on now, too much water has gone under the bridge!😀

[Phil Bullock]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Interestingly the original Hornby (?Triang Hornby) Hymeks were correct!

Accotrding to Joe Field, the WR Chief Traction Inspector, who was involved in the trials the Hymeks performed quite well when tested against the EE Type 3 and in some situations were actually better  due to what amounted to having eight coupled wells.

 

Going down hill is an intereting point as yopur comment suggests that the loco was braking the load - and that was something no sane Driver would have donme on the worst gradients because the braj ke blocks would have been burning nicely before they disintegrated completely.  Even on light trains, where the loco had to do some braking, the rate of brake block wear on the EE Type 3s could be phenomenal and on one of our Radyr turns the blocks only lasted a couple of days , and that was a train which never loaded more than a couple of hundred tons trailing but had insufficient wagon brakes to hold the train.

 

Coming f down from Cwmbargoe with 1,000 tons the loco brake wasn't touched at all after the train had started from the top.  The train somply (usually) stopped at Nelson at the bottom because it had run out of help from gravity and the wagin brakes were still biting - even tho the brake blocks were on fire on at least part of the train.  A Hymek could have done that just as easily!

Thanks Mike. On that basis runaways should not have existed …. But there’s a couple of well recorded Teddy Bears in the dirt …. Cymmer Afan wasn’t it? Does that mean insufficient brakes were pinned down then? 

[VIA185]

I always considered the window surrounds to be duck egg BLUE not grey and certainly not white. I recall the huge improvement to an early Tri-ang Hymek when I painted window surrounds a very pale blue. I lost interest in the WR when the wretched A1A-A1A Type 2s took over from the Hymeks. I'd be happy to turn the clock back now, though and 31s on the Worcester trains but conversely I thought the 50s were great when they first came to the WR and now I can't stand the thought of the things! (CJL)

[Andy Kirkham]

I think 7054 was one of the last. I caught it with my Instamatic at Westbury in May 1972

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Andy Kirkham

[Halvarras]

59 minutes ago, Andy Kirkham said:

I think 7054 was one of the last. I caught it with my Instamatic at Westbury in May 1972

 

 

 

Yes, it was the last green one in active service, until December 1972 having outlived D7005 by about 6 months and thus became something of a celebrity that autumn. After withdrawal it was parked at Bristol St Philips Marsh with 824 and 7097 for company, where I paid it a few visits in 1973. When it was eventually moved on it didn't go straight to Swindon for scrap but instead went in the opposite direction, to Laira with two others - 7068 and 7074 OTOH - for several months, reason unknown. It was one of only five which were cut up without a change of livery since new, the others being D7021/4/5/60.

[Matt37268]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

 

Yes, it was the last green one in active service, until December 1972 having outlived D7005 by about 6 months and thus became something of a celebrity that autumn. After withdrawal it was parked at Bristol St Philips Marsh with 824 and 7097 for company, where I paid it a few visits in 1973. When it was eventually moved on it didn't go straight to Swindon for scrap but instead went in the opposite direction, to Laira with two others - 7068 and 7074 OTOH - for several months, reason unknown. It was one of only five which were cut up without a change of livery since new, the others being D7021/4/5/60.

Wasn’t there a plan to send one (and maybe a Western) up to Fort William for steam heating purposes? Could that be a reason? 

[br2975]

10 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Absolutely! Every working everywhere…. Well except a heavy unbraked coal train down the Valleys perhaps …. 

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You're correct there Phil.

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But during October 1970 one, later three Canton Hymeks displaced from West Wales duties were allocated to duties off Radyr, replacing two Cl.47 workings.

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Hymeks were more than daily visitors to Radyr, but were rare any further 'up the valley' and almost unheard of in the Rhymney Valley.

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The initial Hymek was allocated to Radyr 'Control' jobs - invariably to do with the Radyr PAD.

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However, they also penetrated as far as Ty Mawr Colliery at Trehafod in the lower Rhondda.

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These Hymek turns didn't appear to last long.

 

[Halvarras]

11 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Interestingly the original Hornby (?Triang Hornby) Hymeks were correct!

 

Now you have me confused! I acknowledge that the window surrounds in reality were not white and the colour photo of brand new D7000 parked in that familiar location outside Swindon Works in May 1961 confirms that. My Tri-ang Hornby Hymek was pre-ordered 19/4/67 and delivered 8/9/67 with an instruction leaflet date-stamped 30/8/67 - so certainly an original one - and the moulded window frames were definitely white (still are if I look inside it) - last year on a nostalgia binge I purchased a pair of near-mint original green TH Hymeks with both 'pre-blue' and 'blue-ready' tooling and again, the moulded window frames are definitely white. 

 

So......correct in what way?!

 

3 hours ago, Matt37268 said:

Wasn’t there a plan to send one (and maybe a Western) up to Fort William for steam heating purposes? Could that be a reason? 

 

News to me but considering the exploits of D6122, D5705, 24054 and 24142 I wouldn't rule it out! I believe there was a Hymek and a Western earmarked for carriage heating duties (memory dust-off says D7089 and D1034?) but I have no idea if this actually happened, let alone a proposal to send them 'off-region'.

[Matt37268]

13 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

 

Now you have me confused! I acknowledge that the window surrounds in reality were not white and the colour photo of brand new D7000 parked in that familiar location outside Swindon Works in May 1961 confirms that. My Tri-ang Hornby Hymek was pre-ordered 19/4/67 and delivered 8/9/67 with an instruction leaflet date-stamped 30/8/67 - so certainly an original one - and the moulded window frames were definitely white (still are if I look inside it) - last year on a nostalgia binge I purchased a pair of near-mint original green TH Hymeks with both 'pre-blue' and 'blue-ready' tooling and again, the moulded window frames are definitely white. 

 

So......correct in what way?!

 

 

News to me but considering the exploits of D6122, D5705, 24054 and 24142 I wouldn't rule it out! I believe there was a Hymek and a Western earmarked for carriage heating duties (memory dust-off says D7089 and D1034?) but I have no idea if this actually happened, let alone a proposal to send them 'off-region'.

I’ve never seen anything official on this either but I have a second hand combine from about 1974? (I need to dig it out) 

there’s hand written notes in there about it from its previous owner, I’m guessing it’s one of those things that could have been mooted at the time in one of the mags but obviously never occurred. 
I know where it is so work permitting over the weekend I’ll try and sort some photos out.