Eastern Region Car Carrier Formations from 1961-1964

[Fredo]

Hi, since Heljan and now EFE are modelling the car carriers does anyone have any ideas on the formation and coach numbers or where I could find them? Thanks Fred

[Steven B]

The BR Coaching stock group is a good place to start:

https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/

 

Dig through the Group's archives and you'll find many carriage workings including the summer 1961 Anglo Scottish Car Carrier, running from Holloway to Edinburgh:

*BSK (luggage only)

*FK

*RU

*FO

8 CCT

2 CCT (detach Newcastle)

 

 

And much later in the day, the Car Sleeper from Kings Cross to Perth:

9CCT

5x SLSTP or 5x SLST (Mon, Wed & Sat Only)

5x *SLSTP (Tue & Thu only)

*BSO

 

All coaches marked * are BR Mk1.

 

The CCT will be the bogie car carriers - ex LNER CCT, Newton Chambers or Mk1 GUV.

 

You'll find some images in Flickr:

D1546_AngloScotCarC_1963 by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

(Robert Gadson on Flickr)

 

Steven B

[keefer]

I think that early-'60s formation was fairly consistent through the years, although I'm sure I've seen a pic with a BSO in place of the BSK.

The Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier (in maroon, with the name on the side of the CCTs) is shown on a 1962 BTF film 'North Eastern Moves Forward'.

Though seems to have a Thomson coach for dining?

Footage is at around 4:30.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by keefer

[Ken.W]

The above formation with 10 vans will be for the original formation using bogie CCTs, as shown in the picture above. (Yes, that is a Thompson dining coach, presumably a substitute as the booked formation shows a Mk1).

 

With the introduction of the TCVs, the formation was reduced to 6 vans (inc. 1 for Newcastle), bearing in mind the TCV carried twice as many cars as a CCT. Also, the BSK was replaced by a BSO.*

 

Also it seems, the vans from the Down day train were transfered empty to Perth to return on the night tran, and similarly the vans off the Down night train returned on the day train from Edinburgh

 

* Hint to tell Mk1 BSO from BSK

BSK: 4 compartment, 2 pairs of luggage doors to van, no corridor-side window opposite toilet

BSO: 5 Bays, one pair of luggage doors to short van, clear window opposite toilet

 

 

Ref: LNER Passenger Trains and Formations, Banks and Carter

Edited June 25, 2023 by Ken.W

[johnw1]

TCV stabled at York

 

E96296E – https://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/52872011368/

 

 

TCV in a West Coast formation at Crewe

 

85003 – http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/7878049220/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tallpaul69]

On 25/06/2023 at 16:06, Ken.W said:

The above formation with 10 vans will be for the original formation using bogie CCTs, as shown in the picture above. (Yes, that is a Thompson dining coach, presumably a substitute as the booked formation shows a Mk1).

 

With the introduction of the TCVs, the formation was reduced to 6 vans (inc. 1 for Newcastle), bearing in mind the TCV carried twice as many cars as a CCT. Also, the BSK was replaced by a BSO.*

 

Also it seems, the vans from the Down day train were transfered empty to Perth to return on the night tran, and similarly the vans off the Down night train returned on the day train from Edinburgh

 

* Hint to tell Mk1 BSO from BSK

BSK: 4 compartment, 2 pairs of luggage doors to van, no corridor-side window opposite toilet

BSO: 5 Bays, one pair of luggage doors to short van, clear window opposite toilet

 

 

Ref: LNER Passenger Trains and Formations, Banks and Carter

Hi Ken,

Were these car carriers also used in the summer 1962 TuO and ThO Cars and Sleepers - 925pm Dover to Newcastle which ran via High Wycombe? There was also a MO and WO 845pm return! 

If not , what would have been used for the cars?

Cheers

Paul

[keefer]

The formation given in the SR Summer 1962 CW book is:

8.45pm Dover Marine - Newcastle (MWO)

4CCT(York) 8CCT(Newcastle) BSO SLS SLSTP SLBSK

There is no designation stating the type of stock but presumably ER Gresley/Mk1? - I don't know if/when Mk1 stock was used on these services.

CCT - presumably those already discussed

SLS may be Gresley-design Sleeper with 4-berths per compartment

SLSTP -  Sleeper with twin-berth compartments and Pantry (attendant's compt.) -  all Mk1 second-class sleepers were  this type.

SLBSK - an elusive vehicle photograph wise, a Brake coach with 4 sleeper compartments. IIRC one appeared in the Perth sleeper.

 

[Ken.W]

7 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi Ken,

Were these car carriers also used in the summer 1962 TuO and ThO Cars and Sleepers - 925pm Dover to Newcastle which ran via High Wycombe? There was also a MO and WO 845pm return! 

If not , what would have been used for the cars?

Cheers

Paul

 

Hi Paul

 

Well, from the workings posted above

The vans from the Down day car carrier return on the Up night sleeper,

And vice-versa for the vans on the Up day car carrier.

 

So, with 6 vans to each of these circuits, that accounts for 12 of the 14 TCV vans built, leaving 2 spares and none available for other services.

[Tallpaul69]

17 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

Hi Paul

 

Well, from the workings posted above

The vans from the Down day car carrier return on the Up night sleeper,

And vice-versa for the vans on the Up day car carrier.

 

So, with 6 vans to each of these circuits, that accounts for 12 of the 14 TCV vans built, leaving 2 spares and none available for other services.

Thanks ken,

Sounds like the Dover -Newcastle service used GUVs, which I have?

That will save me the expense of the TCVs although they do look nice!

Anyone thoughts on where I can find the makeup of the Dover-Newcastle trains. I have E running number Mk1 sleepers, might chuck in the odd SR green brake for variety.

Cheers

Paul

 

[Fredo]

Thanks for the information.