HOm track for Swiss MGB plan

[Gordonwis]

I'm rather hoping Paul (Rhb) and Jim (Fin) will see this post at some point, but others may also be able to help.

 

Around 2009 I started collecting Bemo HOm Matterhorn Gotthard Bahn items having made a continuous series of skiing visits between circa 2004 - 2010 as a whole family group including my now dearly departed  parents. These visits did not start my interest in BVZ/FO/MGB as I have been familiar with the lines since childhood visits /trips in the 1960s , however being in accommodation in Zermatt you are never too far from the station and we always got down from a day's skiing in time to see /film / photograph the daily 'big' downhill freight every evening (the best holiday was when we stayed in the Ambassador apartments and Deh4/4 23 spent most of the week using the siding almost arms length from the hotel room balconies as its layover point (usually waiting to take the evening ECS/vans down to Visp. 

 

However, I have never started a layout for two reasons; (1) lack of space and (2) the arrival of the Kato stuff in N which has since 1971 been my main modelling scale.

 

Now a mate of mine is leading a combined project to recreate Brig Bahnhofplatz (before the Naters route was replaced). 

 

My main question is about types track and relative heights - as the MGB platforms at Brig are quite low (even now - I last visited in May this year) and I have a lot of previously acquired PECO HOm and a bit of old BEMO. The crucial measurement needed in order to get the visuals of coach against platform   right seems to be the rail top verse the height of the platform.

 

Does anyone know the key measurements please? 

 

[PaulRhB]

59 minutes ago, Gordonwis said:

The crucial measurement needed in order to get the visuals of coach against platform   right seems to be the rail top verse the height of the platform.

 

Does anyone know the key measurements please? 

Sorry Gordon, I can’t help on exact measurements. I don’t even have that for RhB stuff 😉 What I’d suggest is a decent photo of the arrangement you’re looking for and just shim a platform top until it looks right for the location. On the MGB there seem to be a variety even in the same station at Andermatt

 

 

 

 

Pretty much level with the rail top there. 
 

 

Oberwald they are about 2-3 inches higher than the rail, note the dips at the crossing. 
 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by PaulRhB

[Gordonwis]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

Sorry Gordon, I can’t help on exact measurements. I don’t even have that for RhB stuff 😉 What I’d suggest is a decent photo of the arrangement you’re looking for and just shim a platform top until it looks right for the location. On the MGB there seem to be a variety even in the same station at Andermatt

 

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

 

 

 

 

Pretty much level with the rail top there. 
 

Oberwald they are about 2-3 inches higher than the rail, note the dips at the crossing. 
 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Paul.

 

I presume MGB are redoing platforms to match the boarding height of the new Orion EMUs so that they meet the new legislation about accessibility. At the moment they get away with having a low floor coach on each push pull train, but I don't know how they are managing the legal issue with the GEX stock.

 

I think the Brig platforms are the same now as they were in the period we plan to set the layout.

 

I took some shots there in May so I do have recent reference:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Gordonwis

[PaulRhB]

1 minute ago, Gordonwis said:

but I don't know how they are managing the legal issue with the GEX stock.

The RhB had mobile lift trollies used for catering trollies and wheelchairs at all stations operated by station or train staff. I assume the MGB probably had the same type of thing at most stations the GEX is booked to stop at which is far fewer than the local services I suppose. 

 

[MOB 2002]

I’ve been through Brig twice this week and could easily have taken a rough measurement. 🤦‍♂️ On the way back to the airport now sadly.

 

The current Brig platforms are definitely above rail height by a good couple of inches. I’ve zoomed into this photo of a previous visit that clearly shows the ramp up from rail level at the Andermatt end of the station. 
 

It would seem to be lined up for the bottom of the doors on the GEX sets if that gives a good datum?

 

 

 

Mark

[JimFin]

Gordon,

 

Cannot help with the specific information but - using street view from Viktoria Strasse in Brig gives a good square on view of the platform - image capture is dated 2013 if that helps.

 

Using the standing figure to scale from, the approx height from rail top to platform is around 20% - say 300 to 350mm.

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Hi Gordon.  I’ve had a look through my copy of the Leslie Heath book, “The Furka-Oberalp Bahn and the Glacier Express” (1996, part of the Swiss Rail Lines Series).  There are several photos of the FO / BVZ station at Brig.  Although they are undated some include early shots of the Panorama Coaches as a guide.

 

As far as I can tell, the platform height seems the same as in the pictures posted earlier in the thread, and with the same edging as in the street shot shared by @JimFin just above.

 

Some things I noted comparing the photos:

 

1.  Some of the background buildings change - do you have a date for the new Buffet building and the office block beyond it?
2.  The central platform not only narrows at the far end (ie: the original rail entrance and exit route, not the road crossing end), it also dips down to just above rail height for the final few metres.

3.  As far as I can tell, the platform canopy still looks the same (plain concrete), but the large display boards that have been added at some point obscure the view - I wouldn’t know when these were added.

 

Hope that helps - sounds like a fascinating project, Keith.

[MOB 2002]

Just taken a quick look at a German language FO/BVZ book in my ‘library’ this morning. There’s a great picture of Brig station in 1988 that shows only the lower level of edging stones visible in the street view image above. So it’d seem the level was raised post 1988.

 

How close to the 2007 closure of the route via Naters are you planning to go?
 

Mark

[Gordonwis]

Thanks for all the comments.

 

Both my mate and I have visited Brig recently and in the past. We have already studied images, videos etc of the lay out of Brig  and the plan was already firmed up as to what will be included and excluded. We are going for an almost correct track plan, pre Naters closure and pre 2006 GEX, and with the SBB station as a backscene image (possibly a tiny bit of half relief somehow). Thus there will be two fiddle yards, the 'Zermatt' and the 'Naters'. The Zermatt track will run off scene behind the residential building and the Naters will go off scene under (hopefully) a single road of HO track representing Brig SBB platform 1.

 

Our choice of  'pre Naters' and 'pre 2006 GEX vehicles' time period is to facilitate the choice of two or three operating eras, all with the GEX as the old mixed stock (BVZ/FO/RhB/MGB). As Paul RhB well knows my main stock is 'up to date' MGB liveried Zermatt-influenced but I have some ex Mike Poleglaze RhB stuff that could come to Brig as part of the GEX and we both have a bit of FO liveried stock. I also have BVZ liveried coaches and HGe4/4 2, so our main operating sequences will be (1) pre-MGB, (2) post-MGB but pre GEX 2006, and thus (3) mixture of pre and post MGB representing the livery changeover period. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Gordonwis

[Gordonwis]

I don't expect we will be actively modelling this era, but here is my late father's picture of the FO shunting tractor near the then headshunt/now main line,  in 1960s. This would have been one of my early visits to Brig Bahnhofplatz!

 

The Migros is still in the same position today!

Edited July 13, 2023 by Gordonwis

[Samedan]

I’ll be following this topic with interest, as I’m going to have a Brig-inspired RhB platform at the front of my main station. I’ve just measured a piece of Bemo track (standard I presume) and the height to the top of the rail is just under 4mm. The height of the platforms being suggested in these comments would add another 4mm or so to that I guess. That “feels” quite high enough, if not a bit too high, to me for a metre gauge platform. I’m also conscious that, if you allow for the possibility of a slightly uneven baseboard surface and the thickness of glue etc, you could be adding to that. But I’ll have to get a modern GEX coach out and look at it properly. 
 

If I may expand the topic a little, I’m struggling to get my head around the question of relative levels of road, m-gauge track, m-gauge platform, pavement, station internal concourse, station std gauge platform and std gauge track? All of which must be modelled in my scenario. I haven’t been out of a train a Brig for some time so only have photos, memory and common sense (!) to go no. I don’t suppose anyone has actually observed these relative levels? 

[Gordonwis]

Although I visited Brig in May this year, this was before my mate and I came up with the definitive plan, and thus the photos I took then were all taken with the train subject as a priority rather than the infrastructure. However, as it happens, I'm staying a night in Brig in three weeks' time so I will be able to take a detailed look at the MGB platforms (I may even take a small pocket tape measure with me as I'm only in Switzerland for a few days so will be travelling light.

[brightspark]

Photos from today, as I was passing through. Sorry, I didn't have a tape measure with me and I was rushing for my connection.

 

Photos of Brig.

 

Platform is about 4inches above the rail.

 

Road side is flush with the rail.

 

 

 

[brightspark]

Photos of Andermatt.

Taken this morning while waiting for the train.

Definitely flush with the rails. on platforms 3 & 4

 

But on platform 1 it is higher.

And new brickwork.

I also noticed that there is new point-work. Mainly the double slips.  I didn't take a photo (it didn't come out) but the double slip on the through lines/ sidings was of a deeper track section.