Two level Bath inspired N gauge layout

[iamwill]

Combining elements of Stoney Lane Depot and the raised Great Western mainline between Bath Spa and Keynsham with a separate railway company line to terminus within the same city - S&D to Bath Green Park (going under instead of over), the city terminus Minories-esque, I've come up with the following track plan. I'd like the city to be inspired by Bath but not a true recreation and there doesn't need to be a station on the raised mainline. Era would probably be 1920s/30s. Currently brainstorming ideas for different types of layouts before getting started on my first proper one, so feedback for this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Initial track plan 2mx1m:

 

Real world inspiration

 

[The Johnster]

I’m assuming this is in N gauge. 
 

If that’s a solid baseboard of 2mx1m, you will need access all around it to be able to reach trains or anything in the centre; the hidden sidings at the back are a bit of a stretch if they are up against a wall.  There is no method of running around stock at your single line branch terminus, so another assumption is that you are going to have light engines arriving to take trains out releasing the original train engine at the same time, very much part of Cyril Freezer’s original Minories concept, but it feels more like a busy suburban terminus in rush hour than a single line BLT.  Are the two short kickback sidings loco spurs?

 

How do you access the BLT’s hidden sidings?

 

I would want some freight facilities as well, or perhaps something like Green Park’s gasworks siding, room bottom right for this sort of thing.  Curving the platforms gently to follow the imaginary geography that results in the raised GW main line curving would, I think, look more natural, and give them a little extra length as a bonus.  Minories was designed to have no reverse curves through pointwork, but you have one accessing the shorter platform; this can be eliminated by a right-handed turnout coming off the curve under the GW bridge, again allowing longer platforms but moving the loco yard to the right a bit.  To my mind this would look less awkward and contrived as well. 
 

I like the skew bridge under the GW line!  It might be possible to extend the length of the GW storage roads using curved turnouts. 
 

Keep us posted!

[RobinofLoxley]

On the main loops there is no connection between them. Now you might think that if you are just going to run trains in each direction that you dont need to cross over but that not right. You also cant exchange locos. When the concept is to present a sequence through a landscape, the storage yards carry all the complexity and flexibility and there's a lot of work to do on the plan for that. As many roads as can fit, with loco shunts and cross-overs.

[Chimer]

17 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

On the main loops there is no connection between them. Now you might think that if you are just going to run trains in each direction that you dont need to cross over but that not right. You also cant exchange locos. When the concept is to present a sequence through a landscape, the storage yards carry all the complexity and flexibility and there's a lot of work to do on the plan for that. As many roads as can fit, with loco shunts and cross-overs.

 

I know what you're saying is for the sake of realism, but that adds all the complications of a fiddle yard, lifting and reversing locos, brake vans etc.  If all the OP wants to do with the high-level lines is have a varied sequence of trains passing over a viaduct in the background while he runs things in and out of the low-level terminus, what's wrong with that?  If he's not fussed that the HST always goes east-west and the steam-hauled football special always goes west-east, it's his railroad after all .....

[iamwill]

Thanks both for your replies

23 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I’m assuming this is in N gauge. 
 

If that’s a solid baseboard of 2mx1m, you will need access all around it to be able to reach trains or anything in the centre; the hidden sidings at the back are a bit of a stretch if they are up against a wall.  There is no method of running around stock at your single line branch terminus, so another assumption is that you are going to have light engines arriving to take trains out releasing the original train engine at the same time, very much part of Cyril Freezer’s original Minories concept, but it feels more like a busy suburban terminus in rush hour than a single line BLT.  Are the two short kickback sidings loco spurs?

 

How do you access the BLT’s hidden sidings?

 

I would want some freight facilities as well, or perhaps something like Green Park’s gasworks siding, room bottom right for this sort of thing.  Curving the platforms gently to follow the imaginary geography that results in the raised GW main line curving would, I think, look more natural, and give them a little extra length as a bonus.  Minories was designed to have no reverse curves through pointwork, but you have one accessing the shorter platform; this can be eliminated by a right-handed turnout coming off the curve under the GW bridge, again allowing longer platforms but moving the loco yard to the right a bit.  To my mind this would look less awkward and contrived as well. 
 

I like the skew bridge under the GW line!  It might be possible to extend the length of the GW storage roads using curved turnouts. 
 

Keep us posted!

In terms of access I haven't yet finalised a place for the layout but it would either be in the corner of a room, such that the back and left hand side would be on the wall, and in which case I would have an access hole roughly centre left of the layout. Or it will be accessible from all sides.

 

With regards to operations I had planned for it to be a busy terminus as it is in a city, so after a train arrives and uncouples another loco will depart with the carriages leaving behind the original loco but if this is unrealistic for a single track line then I could make it double track and more closely recreate Minories. Alternatively, I could add a middle track between the two platforms to create run around for both but there isn't that much space for additional tracks in the station, but the draw of Minories to me was the lack of this.

 

I haven't entirely planned the good yards and sidings which will exist in the bottom right yet but I don't want too much track so that there's no scenery, I'm open to ideas here but ideally 1/2 loco sidings and 1-3 goods sidings.

 

I like the idea of curved platforms and I'll be sure to rework the points in that fashion.

 

17 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

On the main loops there is no connection between them. Now you might think that if you are just going to run trains in each direction that you dont need to cross over but that not right. You also cant exchange locos. When the concept is to present a sequence through a landscape, the storage yards carry all the complexity and flexibility and there's a lot of work to do on the plan for that. As many roads as can fit, with loco shunts and cross-overs.

I do plan for as many sidings as possible and will add a crossover between the two main loops and kickback sidings where space but as above I may have to forego some area for an access hole.

[The Johnster]

A busy city terminus with anything of a main line feel to it would, IMHO, be much more believable with a double track main line approach, but that would leave you with rather short trains and very limited hidden storage.  Could you perhaps move it to the left and curve it around, and use the skew bridge as it’s scenic break?

[RobinofLoxley]

Can i ask what track code is in mind for this project? I have an idea I want to check out via a doodle in Anyrail

[iamwill]

1 hour ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Can i ask what track code is in mind for this project? I have an idea I want to check out via a doodle in Anyrail

It's code 80

[iamwill]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

A busy city terminus with anything of a main line feel to it would, IMHO, be much more believable with a double track main line approach, but that would leave you with rather short trains and very limited hidden storage.  Could you perhaps move it to the left and curve it around, and use the skew bridge as it’s scenic break?

I'll have a play around and see what works in the given space. One idea I had is to keep the single branch line and then have double track mainline go off into the bottom right beyond a goods yard, more similar to Green Park but I don't think they'll then be space for hidden sidings for that line without using cassettes or an extension to the baseboard.

[RobinofLoxley]

12 hours ago, iamwill said:

It's code 80

Grim. No slips at least not in my version of anyrail

[Kris]

4 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Grim. No slips at least not in my version of anyrail

That's correct, however it is possible to use the code 55 slips with code 80. 

[iamwill]

47 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Grim. No slips at least not in my version of anyrail

I haven't bought any code 80 track yet so I'm ok with using code 55

[RobinofLoxley]

My opinion relating to Minories type layouts is that the terminus is great but its what happens at the opposite end that is tricky; most Minories themed layouts finish up with a lot of on scene additions because the basic premise is quite limited and requires a traverser or cassettes etc.

 

The low level station as drawn is really a BLT - take away a platform, add a run-around; with three options from the fan of sidings as shown though one could lead out to a cassette etc.

 

So I wondered if it was possible to connect the two parts of the plan so that the Minories part could share some sidings with the loop part. I know that the original concept has essentially 2 railway companies and basically I'm playing with an idea here. I'm not sure if 5cm is enough separation for N but I wanted to establish that the gradients were do-able, which at less than 2% everywhere, they seem to be. I'm very familiar with the location btw.

 

The track I have doodled is a bit grim being full of tight curve warnings - these can be ironed out, I was bodging a mix of codes. What was essential was to have the two slips so that a train leaving the station, which is pure Minories, can run into a siding and the coaches be reversed into the long siding on the right to free the loco. There no loco turning shown yet. The train could run round, although thats not the point. 

 

Its a long way from the original but before any track has been laid theres no harm in speculation...

 

(Anyrail has removed some track on the RHS but I hope its clear enough as it is)

Edited July 31, 2023 by RobinofLoxley

[Flying Pig]

20 hours ago, Chimer said:

I know what you're saying is for the sake of realism

 

This myth needs to die.  Unless you watched a main line for several hours (and possibly for more than a day) you wouldn't typically see exactly the same locos and stock returning (you might not see it at all if it was on a more complex diagram than simply out and back).  A realistic selection of trains in each direction is fine for a trains-going-by type of main line scene unless you have the stock capacity of a Retford or a Little Bytham (and even they can't represent every train in the timetable individually, just the more important ones).  Most of the big exhibition roundies just run a sequence without bothering to shunt anything.

 

In this particular case, where the main line is basically an exhibition layout for the amusement of the person busy operating the terminus, simple storage on the main line is even more important.

[Geep7]

One of the features of the Stoney Lane Depot layout that the OP mentions, is that the low-level depot at the front, is physically linked to the upper level, with a junction at the high level on the front of the layout. So it's not beyond the realms of possibility that you could link the low-level terminus if you wanted to.

[DCB]

A dodge I use all the time with my free version of AnyRail is to to a screenshot every now and again and then draw in the missing track using Faststone image viewer, other programs are available ,   That way you can mosaic up the image even when you have run out of Anyrail components   See attached.   While doing it I found some orphan points and spurs. Plus no run round at the Terminus.   Even a bog standard Minories clone needs a run round once it gets more than three or so coaches long (the original was tiny)  so you can run off peak services,  You won't be doing three minute interval trains to Bristle from Barf all night.  Be lucky to get anything between 10pm and 6am or between 2 and 4pm.   If you want Panic Mode, Moorgate street. 1 LMS platform,1 LNER platform, change over locos, Manic    

[RobinofLoxley]

Lol David. I have the full version but I dont need to join up the dots illustrating a point of principle, namley there was enough space to connect the two sections. The question mark is just a siding, so that a train running round to one of the left hand sidings can shunt back into it to release the loco. There's plenty of room to vary the Minories as you point out, I thought it was sufficient to show that it fits, and there are options associated with it such as platform length. The OP talked about 1920's so shorter stock and locos, quite ideal for it as drawn.

 

Actually I cropped the original myself, by mistake. But the dots have been connected.

Edited August 6, 2023 by RobinofLoxley