How much proactive maintenance is done on preserved railways vs only when things break?

[OnTheBranchline]

I thought I would ask in light of the LNER Q6 cylinder failure. Obviously proactive maintenance is harder when finances and manpower is tighter.

[Matt37268]

On 03/08/2023 at 03:58, OnTheBranchline said:

I thought I would ask in light of the LNER Q6 cylinder failure. Obviously proactive maintenance is harder when finances and manpower is tighter.

I think it depends on who you ask, from my own experience, the 50 alliance have used the knowledge from Laira regarding the operation of their locomotives to make sure things don’t go bang.

A friend of mine’s rather happy to have his machine’s worked hard with a crew that know what they’re doing…

He can get rather annoyed at those that don’t. 

[AMJ]

There are many steam locos that have scheduled maintenance such as boiler wash outs which help to keep the important pressure vessel from failing to produce steam.

All railways worth their salt have a daily lubrication process for each loco.  Many important lubrication and coolant levels are in the daily check list for drivers at the start of the day.

Quite a few crews will ensure that the tubes of a boiler are cleaned a day or so before they are on it so that it will boil ok for them when they want it to do so.

With the best will in the world many industrial diesel locos have engine hours logs so that just like a road vehicle you get to a certain figure and change engine oil, gear box oil transmission fluid and coolant.

In the autumnal months coolant is checked on diesels to ensure that the desired quantity of anti freeze is in the mix.  Without doing so I have seen engines fail when the water freezes.

[25901]

On 07/08/2023 at 10:37, AMJ said:

In the autumnal months coolant is checked on diesels to ensure that the desired quantity of anti freeze is in the mix.  Without doing so I have seen engines fail when the water freezes.

The mix can also act as a preservative for the block. A diesel engine that freezes can blow it's crankcase wall out and write the power unit off (I've seen it)

On diesels now the main thing to keep an eye on is oil sampling, gives you a pre warning of whats wearing.

As you have said scheduled maintenance is the key.

[Nick C]

It's not just locos of course - everything that moves has an annual (I believe, might be more frequent?) fitness-to-run exam. PW check all the track weekly (looking for loose keys, broken fishplates, rotting sleepers etc), and oil the moving parts of the pointwork. Similarly S&T will have their own inspection/maintenance regime, as will infrastructure/buildings departments.

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, 25901 said:

The mix can also act as a preservative for the block. A diesel engine that freezes can blow it's crankcase wall out and write the power unit off (I've seen it)

On diesels now the main thing to keep an eye on is oil sampling, gives you a pre warning of whats wearing.

As you have said scheduled maintenance is the key.

Proper anti-freeze also prevents corrosion, which is why it is used all year round.

[pheaton]

14 hours ago, 25901 said:

The mix can also act as a preservative for the block. A diesel engine that freezes can blow it's crankcase wall out and write the power unit off (I've seen it)

On diesels now the main thing to keep an eye on is oil sampling, gives you a pre warning of whats wearing.

As you have said scheduled maintenance is the key.

But quite a few preserved diesels are unable to run on anti-freeze due to the age of the liner seals...

 

Normal maintenance for me during the year...is a battery level check at 6 monthly intervals, (increasing as the batteries age) fuel pump and injector checks (are your fuel pumps leaking from the top O ring, or sides). And is fuel leaking from the injector tell tales....normally ill do that 6 times a year. At the start of each season i will top up the oil reservoirs for the traction motor bearings. As well as motac And then at the start of each season a full BR B exam is completed as per our SMS to ensure fitness to run. Other routine maintenance is a brush and commutator inspection of all motors, and the main generator.

 

I only use oil samples to tell me the condition of the oil.....generally every oil sample i take will tell me there is wear going on in the engine.......the only values im generally concerned about is fuel content, and oil viscosity, i generally monitor oil pressure vs oil and water temperature at various points of the engines duty cycle to build up a reasonable idea of what the condition is of the engine.

 

On 45149 routinely ill inspect brake cylinders bi-monthly, as they are not obvious to the driver if they are functioning correctly.

 

Other than that its as things break, like resistors and brake valves and bulbs...

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by pheaton

[Oldddudders]

3 hours ago, pheaton said:

And then at the start of each season a full BR B exam is completed as per our SMS to ensure fitness to run.

And that sums it up. Heritage railways are subject to the same requirements of safe operation by ORR as the main line. It might - might - have been a bit different 60 years ago when heritage railways were a novelty, but these days Safety Management Systems/Safety Cases are a key requirement for a licence to operate. A trainload of passengers on a preserved railway requires the same Duty of Care by the operator as any TOC. 

[Matt37268]

11 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Proper anti-freeze also prevents corrosion, which is why it is used all year round.

Not from my own experience, I was told as a yoof that using antifreeze wasn’t a good idea unless your loco’s were in regular use, otherwise it would can  cause corrosion issues. 
I don’t think it’s a problem if your machine’s in regular use, but there’s reasons why machines are drained over the winter if they’re not going to be used. 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Matt37268

[pheaton]

Modern anti freeze contains a corrosion inhibitor, older anti-freezes were known to "seperate" in the event of a long period out of use. Its worth noting BR did never use antifreeze, they trialed borax and a few other treatments in the early years but all locos tended to run on fresh potable water.

 

draining locos is the worst thing you could do because the water system is vented and you allow oxygen in and that allows bi-metallic corrosion to take hold in the radiator system tanks. But also its very difficult to fully drain a loco so you end up with water present still in the heat exchanger and between the flanges of pipes and the triple pump (if you have a sulzer) and it will freeze more readily than full loco and cause all sorts of problems.

 

however..in the winter your a brave person if you dont drain your water filled loco....

Edited August 9, 2023 by pheaton

[Jeremy Cumberland]

Antifreeze always seemed very good at finding leaks. I couple of the old diesel engines I used to deal with (not main line locomotives, I might add) leaked like a sieve, and we never put antifreeze anywhere near them. The watertight ones were topped up with antifreeze all year round. Not so much because of any benefit it gave in the summer, but because it saved having to work out how much antifreeze to add in the winter.

[25901]

Never fill a diesel loco's cooling system with tap water, one 24 that swill know pheaton froze solid one winter at Southport and did a hell of a lot of damage. Repairs done at Bury which included good old cold stitch welding, new heat exchanger and a lot of pipe work.

We gave it a free 2 day paint job too lol

[pheaton]

1 minute ago, 25901 said:

Never fill a diesel loco's cooling system with tap water, one 24 that swill know pheaton froze solid one winter at Southport and did a hell of a lot of damage. Repairs done at Bury which included good old cold stitch welding, new heat exchanger and a lot of pipe work.

We gave it a free 2 day paint job too lol

And it's had a governor overhaul and still going strong...bar a few transition rubber leaks...

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, pheaton said:

BR did never use antifreeze

HSTs used anti-freeze, IIRC.

[jjb1970]

Engine water treatment is pretty important to long term durability and reliability of engines, if nothing like as critical as boiler water treatment. Regular testing to maintain corrosion and scale inhibitors at correct levels pays dividends and distilled water.

[adb968008]

11 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

HSTs used anti-freeze, IIRC.

I was just looking at a HST coolant top up cart on the platform at Exeter yesterday.

[johnofwessex]

I have seen an Engineers Jacket Water Testing Kit in use on a ship

 

Funnily enough a steamer but presumably it covered the relevant tests needed

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

I have seen an Engineers Jacket Water Testing Kit in use on a ship

 

Funnily enough a steamer but presumably it covered the relevant tests needed

Does that involve standing on the foredeck in your oilies?