Can anyone help with the origins of a B/L marked GWR King ?

[stanb]

I Need a little help working out the providence of a Bassett Lowke model of a GWR King class.

This 3 rail but close to finescale model was bought by my late father in the early 80's for what was a sizable sum at the time. He partially stripped it, converted it to 2 rail, and left it partially stripped to superdetail it at some time. (he was going to rename/renumber it too.

Of course that didn't  happen and now I have it in my possession. I'm not sure that my construction skills would be up to restoring it properly anytime soon so may yet put her up for sale so I'm looking for more detail as to what it is

A search of the interwwebby has not found a lot about its history, its clearly NOT a pre war Marklin build, there was a mention of Beeson building some models for B/L, but the model lacks the rivetted construction often associated with him. From an old Christies auction I did find a mention of a series of B/L kings being made in the mid to late 60's which seems very late in their history but not implausable: certainly the model was build to a very high, and fine standard, and the motor is fairly small for an earlier generation.

the model clearly passed through Norman Wissenden at some stage ,although my memory (may be wrong) is that it was bought it locally (Australia)

Can anyone shed some light on its origins?

Edited August 8, 2023 by stanb

[sncf231e]

From 60-63 GWR King Richard 6027 in 2 or 3-rail electric was available from B/L as made to order.

Regards

Fred

[stanb]

15 hours ago, sncf231e said:

From 60-63 GWR King Richard 6027 in 2 or 3-rail electric was available from B/L as made to order.

Regards

Fred

thanks Fred, that is a good lead. This one was actually 6000, King George V but if these were custom orders then it may be possible that differing names may have been available. Alternatively it may have been renumbered/name at a later stage. I've had a comment on the GOG forum that the motor is not a normal B/L type

[Nearholmer]

Was the name “Bassett Lowke Railways” used by the ‘true’ B-L company?

 

I have a feeling not, and that it was adopted by the ‘post demise’ company led by Roland Fuller and Allen Levy c1968. See this, although the logo they were using was basically the original one https://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/blscott/index.html

 

Also, there is something slightly odd about that label, almost as if it’s a logo clipped out from a catalogue or something.

 

To me, the loco is a strange mix, because some features of it seem very finely made, but others strangely lacking, like the complete absence of cab detail.

 

Maybe try emailing Allen Levy via the Ace Trains of London website, because he might be able to remember whether they commissioned a batch of Kings, or even took an order for a single one, or handled a secondhand one, and if so who the builder was.

 

BTW, what are the main materials? 
 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Nearholmer

[stanb]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Was the name “Bassett Lowke Railways” used by the ‘true’ B-L company?

 

I have a feeling not, and that it was adopted by the ‘post demise’ company led by Roland Fuller and Allen Levy c1968. See this, although the logo they were using was basically the original one https://www.binnsroad.co.uk/railways/blscott/index.html

 

Also, there is something slightly odd about that label, almost as if it’s a logo clipped out from a catalogue or something.

 

To me, the loco is a strange mix, because some features of it seem very finely made, but others strangely lacking, like the complete absence of cab detail.

 

Maybe try emailing Allen Levy via the Ace Trains of London website, because he might be able to remember whether they commissioned a batch of Kings, or even took an order for a single one, or handled a secondhand one, and if so who the builder was.

 

BTW, what are the main materials? 
 

 

 

 

 

Thankyou for that,

 

I just received a reply from Mike green of the Bassett Lowke Society, who also suggested it may be a model sold by Steam Age after they licenced the Bassett Lowke name: He suggested they tended to put the B/L logo on any coarse scale models they sold, although I would have suggested this one has more of a "Universal" standard wheel ( a la Lima or rivarossi) . I tend to agree with you about the logo, it does seem like an addition does it not?

 

It appears to be mostly constructed from Nickel Silver : Its definitely not tin plate ( not magnetic) , with a brass chassis, wheels are cast Iron, but Thankyou again, I will try the Ace Trains lead, It would be good to be able to state with certainty what it is

[Nearholmer]

‘Coarse scale’ wheel profiles and b-t-b distances vary across a very wide range, so that if you look at G0G ‘coarse’ the wheel profile is actually quite fine, for instance.
 

It’s very hard to be sure from a photo, but the ones on yours do look fairly typical of the sort of profile used by B-L from the 1930s onwards, which are notably less coarse than the ‘Greenly 1909’ profile used on, say, Bing for B-L, and less coarse than contemporary Hornby (but coarser than Leeds, Mills etc!). B-L also seem to have increased b-t-b at some indeterminate date c1950, and they did supply locos with specifically fine-scale wheels late in their existence.

 

Here is an ordinary stock B-L Stanier 2-6-4T, and you can see that the wheel flanges are far from gross.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Nearholmer

[stanb]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

‘Coarse scale’ wheel profiles and b-t-b distances vary across a very wide range, so that if you look at G0G ‘coarse’ the wheel profile is actually quite fine, for instance.
 

It’s very hard to be sure from a photo, but the ones on yours do look fairly typical of the sort of profile used by B-L from the 1930s onwards, which are notably less coarse than the ‘Greenly 1909’ profile used on, say, Bing for B-L, and less coarse than contemporary Hornby (but coarser than Leeds, Mills etc!). B-L also seem to have increased b-t-b at some indeterminate date c1950, and they did supply locos with specifically fine-scale wheels late in their existence.

 

Here is an ordinary stock B-L Stanier 2-6-4T, and you can see that the wheel flanges are far from gross.

 

 

Thanks again, you piqued my curiosity, and I just put the callipers over the wheels. the drivers B2B are 29mm, the bogie 28, and the tender 28-29 .. with a distinct domed profile on their back face - I suspect that the models wheels were subject to some reprofiling to finescale standards at some point. 

 

Allen just replied, but can shed no light as to its origins, he certainly cannot recall any Kings being made by Steam Age, but it was a very long time ago, so not a definitive no, just a probably not

 

Maybe it would be worth trying Wissendens, but again it would have been sold by them sometime during the 70's so a very very long shot!