Adding 3rd Rail

[Jack Cregan]

Hi 

    Looking for some advice on laying 3rd rail.

Would it be better to add the 3rd rail before or after ballasting?

TIA

Jack

Edited August 24, 2023 by Jack Cregan

[CHAZ D]

I added after ballasting (easier to lay and level ballast!).

Edited August 24, 2023 by CHAZ D

[nick_bastable]

doing the ramps on pre ballasted  track may be tricky

[SRman]

After painting the other rails and ballasting is easier, but you may have to scoop a little of the ballast away where the ramps are (as alluded to by Nick, above).

For purely practical purposes, I have laid all of the third and fourth rail (so far) countersunk slightly so it is lower than the running rails. I know this is the opposite of what occurs on the real thing, but having them higher than the running rails can cause a multitude of problems regarding clearances and for track cleaning purposes.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by SRman
Fixing typo.

[nick_bastable]

raising the 3rs rail is a flaff when cleaning the rail  but does look better

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by nick_bastable
pps

[CHAZ D]

I use a track rubber with the corners cut back to fit inside the track and the edges cut to clear the 3rd rail! points are more difficult so I use 5-7mm strips of the track rubber and use them carefully.

Edited August 25, 2023 by CHAZ D

[Jack Cregan]

19 hours ago, CHAZ D said:

I added after ballasting (easier to lay and level ballast!).

Hi Thanks for the reply

Yes that was my initial thought but it's good to get a second opinion.

Jack

[Jack Cregan]

17 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

doing the ramps on pre ballasted  track may be tricky

Hi Thanks for the reply.

What did you find is the best way to form the ramps?

Jack

[Jack Cregan]

12 hours ago, SRman said:

After painting the other rails and ballasting is easier, but you may have to scoop a little of the ballast away where the ramps are (as alluded to by Nick, above).

For purely practical purposes, I have laid all of the third and fourth rail (so far) countersunk slightly so it is lower than the running rails. I know this is the opposite of what occurs on the real thing, but having them higher than the running rails can cause a multitude of problems regarding clearances and for track cleaning purposes.

 

 

Hi Thanks for the reply.

I am using code 100 for the running rails and code 60 for the 3rd.

It's a bit of a cheat but I have the code 60 in stock already.

Jack

[Jack Cregan]

2 hours ago, nick_bastable said:

raising the 3rs rail is a flaff when cleaning the rail  but does look better

 

That looks terrific .Do you have any problems with the stock fouling the 3rd rail?

Jack

[nick_bastable]

1 hour ago, Jack Cregan said:

That looks terrific .Do you have any problems with the stock fouling the 3rd rail?

Jack

No issues all code 40 bullhead for the running  lines and flatbottom for the 3rd rail however to qualify Im running 2mm standards  ramps are formed against a card template with smooth jaw pliers, although have changed methods and now use 3rd printed pots instead of soldered to pins as used originally

[dasatcopthorne]

I've laid a lot of third rail in my time so here is what I have learnt.

 

Raise it no more that 1mm above any running rail, less if you can.

If you are working in 00, then fit the 3rd rail very slightly closer then the prototype.

I made myself a gauge that included a raised area to set the rail and a dropped area to mark/drill holes.

Most modellers make their ramps too short and too steep. They never reach the ballast.

Fix down (solder) on tiny round head brass screws (often found in the ship or Dolls House modelling trade).

Clean the rail all round with a fibreglass brush then weather with Birchwood Casey 'Super Blue' No need to paint as the rails is very often a black.grey oily colour.

Paint the exposed sides of the screws a mid grey, not white.

Oh, and ballast first then paint/weather track.

 

Hope this helps a little.

 

Dave.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by dasatcopthorne

[Multigauge]

I only had a short section to lay and I opted to ballast and paint the track, then fit the con rail. It was a tad fiddly using the peco pots and code 60, but I got there in the end. 

I drilled out the holes and then threaded the pots on to the rail prior to mating with the sleepers; I used some pliers to bend the ramp end to shape and I was reasonably happy with the outcome. 

[SRman]

2 hours ago, Multigauge said:

I only had a short section to lay and I opted to ballast and paint the track, then fit the con rail. It was a tad fiddly using the peco pots and code 60, but I got there in the end. 

I drilled out the holes and then threaded the pots on to the rail prior to mating with the sleepers; I used some pliers to bend the ramp end to shape and I was reasonably happy with the outcome. 

 

That looks good. 

I usually thread a few extra pots on initially as there are always a few that go pinging off into the distance as I lay the track. Any surplus ones still on at the end of a length of rail can be simply pushed off and reused.

[Geep7]

For actual positioning and locations of the conductor rail, this page is probably all you need, and i've found it very useful: http://www.clag.org.uk/3rd-4th.html

[Rich Papper]

I too ballast and weather the track before adding the third rail - also Peco code 60 and their pots. I also tend to recess them a little further into the sleeper end by drilling one small hole through for the locating peg, and then about 3/4mm in with a larger bit to slightly recess the collar under the insulator. Another vote for super-blue before adding too. Can then waft over with a bit more weathering when all the other bits are in place. Don't forget to add the cables that connect lengths of rail. I use solder wire glues on and painted matt black.

 

Currently working on side protection boards for station areas.

Good luck.
Rich

[Multigauge]

Nice jumpering. Interested in your con rail boarding. Fortunately these days it seems to be little used. 

[Right Away]

On 26/08/2023 at 10:14, dasatcopthorne said:

I've laid a lot of third rail in my time so here is what I have learnt.

 

Raise it no more that 1mm above any running rail, less if you can.

If you are working in 00, then fit the 3rd rail very slightly closer then the prototype.

I made myself a gauge that included a raised area to set the rail and a dropped area to mark/drill holes.

Most modellers make their ramps too short and too steep. They never reach the ballast.

Fix down (solder) on tiny round head brass screws (often found in the ship or Dolls House modelling trade).

Clean the rail all round with a fibreglass brush then weather with Birchwood Casey 'Super Blue' No need to paint as the rails is very often a black.grey oily colour.

Paint the exposed sides of the screws a mid grey, not white.

Oh, and ballast first then paint/weather track.

 

Hope this helps a little.

 

Dave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like the use of soldered small roundhead screws for insulator pots, a far more robust and a good looking job as well.

I’ve always used Peco insulators, they look great but can be a right PITA to install - then you have to try and unstick yer fingers afterwards! 

[Pete the Elaner]

DOGA make a tool to help get conductor rails a consistent distance from the running rail. It is also helpful for those modelling a centre 4th rail:

Lay it flat to drill your pilot holes for the insulator pots, then place it on end to hold the rails in place when you fix them.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Pete the Elaner
spelling