Can anyone identify the maker of these wagons

[randylabinski]

Hi. Going through some of my father’s collection that have been boxed for 40 odd years and came across these two wagons. They appear to be made of plywood and I assume they were originally a kit. ‘oo’/“oh’ gauge. All my research for the manufacturer has come up blank. He did live in the next village along from where D&S Models was based, but I don’t think it’s theirs. Anyone got any  ideas: Thanks

Edited August 25, 2023 by randylabinski

[Paul H Vigor]

Can you tell us what gauge/scale these wagons are?

[randylabinski]

I should have said, they are ‘oo’ or ‘oh’ gauge.

[The Johnster]

They'll most probably be 4mm, for 00 gauge.  Back in the 50s and 60s, most RTR and kit manufacturers described their 4mm 00 products as '00/H0' to indicate to customers that the models would run on 00 or H0 track, which are the same gauge anyway of course but the manufacturers were worried that customers might think that 00 gauge models could not run on H0 track or vice versa.  '0H', or 'oh' is an error.  Or perhaps an expression of surprise...

 

No idea who made them, though they have the look of kits rather than RTR products.  My best guess is early Peco or Keyser, possibly Graham Farish, but it's purely a guess.

Edited August 26, 2023 by The Johnster

[Darius43]

I would say wooden kit wagons, judging by the way the W-iron/axle box castings are screwed to the chassis and the glimpses of wood grain through the paintwork.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Moxy]

Don't know for certain, but they could be very early CCW or Ratio kits.

 

There is a thread here about these early wooden kits, sadly some of the photos are missing.

 

 

[randylabinski]

Many thanks to all the repliers. Very helpful.

[DCB]

It may be scratch built rather than kit built.  My own father in law had quite a lot of W irons, wheels buffers, 3 link couplings etc stockpiled from when he started modelling in the 50s and 1960s as well as crude Bakelite kits among his effects   The W irons have two screw holes and just fit with wood screws.   Unfortunately for these makers Peco introduced their wonderful wagons in the early 60s (?)  and lets face it, they are on a different planet to these wooden creations, so most were rapidly consigned to the scrap box or bin.  I bet these wagons never ran after 1970 and have been in a drawer or box somewhere for the  last half century.   On the plus side the axles are nice and square to the chassis something Hornby Dublo didn't always manage and the brake gear looks reasonable for an old wooden  wagon with single side brakes compared to modern RTR.

Edited August 26, 2023 by DCB

[Il Grifone]

My thoughts were 'home brew' using someone's cast axleguards. I have seen those buffers before, but have no idea as to the make. The couplings look like the ERG product. I would leave well alone as 'collectibles'.

 

The Peco wagons first appeared in 1954 IIRC and had a cast floor with wooden sides covered with an embossed card sheet printed with a vriety of P.O. names. Around 1960 the wooden sides were replaced with a cast body. They don't really meet modern standards, but were a step forward in the fifties*. The axles and buffers are sprung, but really the springs are too stiff to be of any use.

* Alternatives were ERG kits (no comment!) and later K's and Wills white metal kits.

[David C]

There was also Kenline, but they may have only produced parts. I remember having some whitemetal brake levers made by them, although what I used them for (if at all) I can't remember. 

 

David C

[roythebus1]

Kenline produced card bodied wagon kits up to the late 1960s.

[Il Grifone]

To go with the card kits (basically a printed sheet of the basic to cut out and stick together)  they had a range of white metal parts. They are excellent, but the range is very limited and like hen's teeth today.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Il Grifone