Recording and creating a custom sound profile

[Jademalo]

I've recently been considering the fairly elaborate project of creating an accurate model of the old Tyne and Wear Metrocars, and one of the more complex aspects is I want to attempt to compile a good sound profile of them before they're retired.

 

I'm relatively new to DCC, but I've got plenty of experience in small electronics, audio software, and audio generally so I don't think any particular aspect of it is beyond my skillset. I figure it's also worth starting now while the Metrocars are still in service, rather than my only option being to dig through various clips of archive audio.

 

I feel like the obvious question first - Is there a detailed guide to creating a sound profile from scratch?

From some quick reading it seems like it's doable with a LokSound chip and LokProgrammer, but I'm struggling to find any detailed information on specifics. Obviously it's more complex than just assigning clips to functions, but I've not really been able to find any good info on how to actually go about it. How to assemble the audio, how the functions interact with the model, best practices etc.

 

With regards to the sounds themselves, does anyone with experience in this sort of thing have any advice in terms of how and what to use?

The main thing is just generally the types of sounds I need. I know the obvious and easy to get things like the motor idling, horn, doors opening and closing etc, but there are probably a whole host of other relevant sounds that I wouldn't think of having not done this sort of thing before. Things like flange squeal, the clunk sound that happens when a train switches leading car, the clack when the throttle is lowered, the engine tone under accelerating and braking, and the noise of I think the compressor? I'm not sure what I would actually need.

 

On a similar note, the actual recording hardware and method is also a consideration.

I have a matched pair of LOM Uši which I normally use for field recording, but I worry they might be a bit too sensitive for the incredibly loud Metrocars.

In addition, how and where is the best way to get a sample of these things? In the station, onboard, or perched on a bridge etc. Obviously sounds have drastically different tones depending on whether or not they're from inside or outside, but it's pretty tricky to get external sounds without running into issues like the doppler effect or just generally having to record them from a static vantage point. Onboard also has the issue of announcements and general other sound during acceleration and braking, plus with there obviously being people I'd not want to disturb anyone.

 

With all that said, does anyone have any good advice or resources with regards to actually doing this?

Even if I don't get round to finishing the project any time soon, I feel like it's worth actually compiling the audio now while they're still in service. I believe 4001 at the very least is going into preservation so I'm not too worried about visual details in the future, but the sound aspect of this won't really be possible sitting static in a museum.

 

Thanks!

[Erixtar1992]

Its very hard work, isnt a quick days work so be prepared for hell lol.

 

you want to be recording the train where there is as little background noise as possible.

try a very quiet station at night, probs best bet.

when recording, keep a consistent distance from the bit you are recording otherwise youll have a nightmare looping it.

 

I use a Rode directional mic which plugs into my Iphone and works well.

 

voice recorder app to allow me to record audio into a WAV file.

 

audacity to create seamless* loops and take out background noise where for example if doing a compressor sound slot,  you need at minimum a start sound, a running loop and an end loop.

the start and running loop need to smoothly transition into eachother, but the running and end loop also need to smoothly transition. 
*takes an age this bit and is probs most important!!

you need to think beforehand and probs write down everything youll need, such as:

 

power on / running / power off sounds

cab door open / close

passenger doors open / close

brakes apply / release

compressor

motor sounds

drive sounds (contactors ect when powering up)

announcements

other random sounds the units make ect.

 

stuff like flange squeel and jointed rail sounds you could use the ESU audio library, or pull the sound slot from an open ESU file.

 

in the lokprogrammer the sound slots work on a flow chart, so for example with a compressor again, if you add a state box, name it start if wanted, then assign your start up sound.

have a second state box with your running loop,

then your third state box will be the end sound.

 

you have to put transitions in between to link them together and you select how you want it to work, such as if F (function) = on.
then the end state has to also have a transition on it that goes back to the start.

 

start off simple and work on one sound slot at a time, then go from there.

 

hope thats of some sort of use.

 

[Jademalo]

Haha, I wasn't expecting it to be quick! It's not like I'm expecting to pop down to the station for 20 minutes and just slap it on a chip, my main priority now is that want to make sure I've got the bases covered before they're retired. I've got as much time as I want to mess around with loops and profile design, so long as I've got some good sources. Knowing what I need and roughly how it goes together will make recording a good deal easier though.

 

Thank you so much for the recommendations and info, this is all really useful!

I've got some slightly fancier software at my disposal than Audacity (iZotope RX10, love it to bits), so I'm not too worried about creating the clean loops. So long as I haven't made a glaring oversight in the initial recording, I should be able to sort out something that sounds good.

 

I think I get what you're describing with LokProgrammer, that doesn't sound too bad. I'm assuming so long as the clips are nice and clean then that's just a case of going through and assembling everything, which doesn't seem too hard.

 

Thanks!

[BoD]

I am speaking here as a user of sound projects rather than a creator.

 

I think that you may have covered this in mentioning acceleration and deceleration but I find that one of the things that can spoil an otherwise good project is the transitions between the different sound loops.  Also short repetitive loops where the sound isn’t uniform - and therefore becomes noticeably a loop - can be off putting. 
 

I know things have greatly improved  in terms of memory but should you be considering  the available memory v total size of your sound files at the design stage?

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, Erixtar1992 said:

 

you want to be recording the train where there is as little background noise as possible.

 

 

If it's the Tyne & Wear Metro, you'll need to record on Saturday night when the old bill are ejecting the late night revellers.

[wiggy1]

17 hours ago, Jademalo said:

I've recently been considering the fairly elaborate project of creating an accurate model of the old Tyne and Wear Metrocars, and one of the more complex aspects is I want to attempt to compile a good sound profile of them before they're retired.

 

 

I was going to send you a PM but either you have messages disabled or you can't receive them yet as you have only just joined.

See if you can send me a PM message.

Wiggy.

[Jademalo]

On 07/09/2023 at 16:27, wiggy1 said:

I was going to send you a PM but either you have messages disabled or you can't receive them yet as you have only just joined.

See if you can send me a PM message.

Wiggy.

 

I've only just joined here, so I don't think I can PM yet unfortunately. I'm not sure what the requirements to be able to are either.

[RAF96]

On 07/09/2023 at 08:44, Jademalo said:

Haha, I wasn't expecting it to be quick! It's not like I'm expecting to pop down to the station for 20 minutes and just slap it on a chip, my main priority now is that want to make sure I've got the bases covered before they're retired. I've got as much time as I want to mess around with loops and profile design, so long as I've got some good sources. Knowing what I need and roughly how it goes together will make recording a good deal easier though.

 

Thank you so much for the recommendations and info, this is all really useful!

I've got some slightly fancier software at my disposal than Audacity (iZotope RX10, love it to bits), so I'm not too worried about creating the clean loops. So long as I haven't made a glaring oversight in the initial recording, I should be able to sort out something that sounds good.

 

I think I get what you're describing with LokProgrammer, that doesn't sound too bad. I'm assuming so long as the clips are nice and clean then that's just a case of going through and assembling everything, which doesn't seem too hard.

 

Thanks!

Go on the ESU site and read or follow through their tutorials on how to select sound bites and assemble them into a cohesive sound file. It is not a simple task nor is it a five minute job to create a viable sound profile.

What is dead easy if you have a Lokprogramner and ESU decoder test rig and a blank EAU sound decoder is to load one of their pre-arranged profiles, many varieties of which there are and also free to download. A few minutes work, if you can find a suitable file for your loco and the version of decoder you have in hand.

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, Jademalo said:

 

I've only just joined here, so I don't think I can PM yet unfortunately. I'm not sure what the requirements to be able to are either.

 

I've activated the PM function for you now.

 

It's disabled for new members thanks to a couple of stupid spammers until I notice that someone is bona fide.

[Jademalo]

42 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

I've activated the PM function for you now.

 

It's disabled for new members thanks to a couple of stupid spammers until I notice that someone is bona fide.

 

Thanks, much appreciated!