Signal at Tenterden, K&ESR

[Artless Bodger]

Good morning, I'm a novice when it comes to signalling. I'm intrigued by the 3 arm signal at the up end of Tenterden station on the old K&ESR where both loop roads had platforms and passenger trains could be crossed. The signal has 2 arms for the approach to the station and one for departure on the same post. I presume the single one acted as starter for either road in the loop.

 

What was the rule for interpreting the two approach (home?) arms? One photo I have seen shows a train approaching up the bank with the points set for the main platform (right hand road) and the lower arm off, so I'm inclined to believe the arms were read downwards for routes from the left to right. Would this be correct?

 

If the left hand road in the loop was goods ony, would the arm for it be a short one? Would the priority from top to bottom be different, i.e. with the top arm refering to the primary - passenger - route and the goods loop arm moved down?

 

(Thinking of a single signal for my light railway inspired BLT layout, just beginning).

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

That signal is no longer there, although it was still serving in the 1970s IIRC, and a very sad loss IMO, because it was so archetypically light railway. Not only were the routes ‘stacked’, but the actual stopping position for one train to give clearance for another wasn’t the signal post. The relationship to the level crossing was a bit interesting too, although I think that was because the crossing was a private one, not on a highway, and I’m not sure it was interlocked. Everything there is now very boringly “proper” I noticed last time I was there.

 

Stacked signals (usually only shunt signals on a modern not-light railway) do indeed read left to right, top to bottom.
 

I believe that either route, left or right when coming up the hill, could be accepted by a passenger train, and that both served platforms. I think it allowed the option of trains passing one another, or two terminating trains one from each direction, or for through running on the platform nearest the building/town, which was more convenient for all concerned if there was only one train in play. I think, but can’t recall for certain, that the single ‘downhill’ arm only permitted departures from the platform nearest the building/town.

 

I have a mild obsession/irritation with things like this, where “preservation” actually isn’t, so that the image presented to the visitor is quite different from the historical reality - it’s a near-inevitable fact of many heritage railways, where the traffic now far exceeds anything seen historically, loads of storage has to be created for the over-stock of trains, gift shops, tea barns etc have to be added, and (I guess in this case) the intensity of operation demands tighter safety controls. It’s now quite hard to find a preserved station that preserves the look and feel of the original, and while I fully understand why that is so, it’s still a bit sad.
 

Got that off my chest!

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Wickham Green too]

Are you trying to imply that the 'old' KESR didn't habitually run Bulleid Pacifics or GWR 2-8-0 tanks ............ surely not ! ☹️

[Nearholmer]

There was a fleeting period early in preservation, where the consensus of KESR members was that the line should be maintained as an example of a traditional light railway, with appropriate stock and with the infrastructure in keeping. You may recall, for instance, that locos and stock wore a KESR livery, the loco livery being that applied to No.3 when it was overhauled in 1943 IIRC. When all that thinking faded away, I’m not sure, but you can probably tell that I’m a crusty old buffer who laments it’s passing.

[Artless Bodger]

Thank you Nearholmer, the photograph I refered to was in the old days, a terrier and one coach climbing the bank and clearly routed for the main platform, BR days I think. Other old photos show for instance a Ford railcar set in the main platform and another with the O1, in both cases the single starter pulled off. 

 

I assumed there was a ground frame at the up end of the station layout (traditionally up is towards Robertsbridge), but a small scale station track plan shows a SB (signal box?) at the Headcorn end, one SP (signal post?) at the up end and two at the down end (towards Headcorn) suggesting to me that down trains could use either platform but up trains only the main platform. If I remember rightly, the original Rother Valley Railway as far as Rolvenden was built to a lighter axle load than the subsequent Headcorn extension so the bigger locos could not work throughout, services were split, meeting and terminating at Tenterden, as you say. 

 

I agree that the current preserved scheme appears to be very slick but in no way reflects the Colonel Stephens ethos, which is a shame. I haven't been to the K&ESR for decades, having spent a few Saturdays clearing undergrowth and unburying track on Tenterden bank as a teenager, and cleaning loco brasswork. It had that semi-moribund feel then, several unrestored locos stored in the bay at Tenterden. I've similar feelings about the Bluebell, Dad took me on an M&D afternoon coach excursion sometime in the later '60s, I thought it was wonderful then, last time I went it was more like Clapham Junction. Visits later in life to other preserved railways, in which I travelled in BR Mk1s, often still with Trojan upholstery were disappointing, my trips to work were in identical coaches, only the livery was different.

[Nearholmer]

Early pictures of the Headcorn end aren’t common, but here’s one, reputedly taken during WW1:

 

I volunteered at both the KESR and the Bluebell in the mid/late 70s, both in the loco sheds, mostly scraping rust off of things, shovelling coal about, and helping with boiler washouts. The Bluebell was a shorter bike ride from home by some margin, but the KESR had more appeal in many ways.

[Artless Bodger]

Thank you for that photo, I've not seen it before. Most of what I have is either off the web or in Stephen Garrett's book. From the latter I'd hazard a guess that the short coaches are some of the 'mixed rake of GER and CLC stock', the others are the Pickering bogie rebuilds of original Hurst Nelson stock. The KESR had some ex LBSCR round ended wagons apparently, maybe those in the siding, though they look a bit SER.

 

The main platform starter appears to be off - no loco on the train though? Also the up starter spectacle plate looks like that signal is off too.

 

Looks like I can justify plenty of coaches on my imaginary line!

[Wickham Green too]

35 minutes ago, Artless Bodger said:

...round ended wagons ... look a bit SER. ...

They look very SER to me - no doubt came in from the big railway with something.

[bécasse]

That postcard photo almost certainly predates the Great War. Publishing new photos of a railway "junction" on one of the principal rail routes to the front-line would almost certainly have fallen foul of the censor.

 

You could have added to your criticism of the current preservation scene the forest of signals which has appeared almost everywhere and which seem to so greatly confuse (youngish) modern modellers of the "old" scene. I understand why such a forest now exists and I do appreciate that some railways try to ensure that their forests are at least made up of the right trees, but, to me personally, it does rather spoil the images that I remember from my youth.

[Wickham Green too]

Ah - I vondered vhy ze photographer vas hidink behind ze tree !