Casual approach to semaphore signalling.

[clachnaharry]

Back in the mid eighties,  I spent some time observing trains at Barnstaple - back when there were loco hauled trains, freight, and semaphore signalling. I noticed that sometimes, the signalman did not bother to pull off the semaphores during the run round maneuver, just giving a hand signal from the box. 

 

I was reminded of this at the weekend when I was watching some videos of the Redmire branch in its last days , where the signalman sometimes did not pull off the signal at Bedale, relying on a hand signal.

 

In both cases, there were no apparent faults with the signal and they were used for prior and subsequent trains.  Was this a "sin" carried out for convenience, and would the practice be frowned on by higher authority at the time?

[LMS2968]

Which signals? If they were Starter (now Section) signals they would not be cleared as this would give permission to go as far as the next box, from which permission would need to be obtained anyway. For restricted movement within station limits there would need to be a dummy to control it , and these were not always provided.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

Many boxes had routes for which no signal was provided, and permission to proceed was given by hand signal from the signal box. The signalman "not bothering" to pull off the semaphore seems unlikely, since pulling a lever is easier than giving a hand signal, so there was presumably some reason why the lever was not pulled. This does not mean that the movement was not permitted.

[Innerhome]

Looking at the post 1971 diagram in George Pryer's Signal Box Diagrams - there would have been sufficient ground discs to cover the obvious shunt moves - but as LMS2968 points out the full semaphore signals would not be cleared as these would require a token to be withdrawn and give authority to proceed to Eggesford. The signalman might give a hand signal if the discs were difficult for a driver to see - say if he was in the cab at the other end of the engine.

 

[clachnaharry]

That's correct from my recollection. There were 2 starters on a bracket, with ground signals at the base for the run round movement. The discs were not cleared in some cases during the run round.

[The Stationmaster]

45 minutes ago, clachnaharry said:

That's correct from my recollection. There were 2 starters on a bracket, with ground signals at the base for the run round movement. The discs were not cleared in some cases during the run round.

Which leaves the question wre teh discs intended for teh move being made or did they read to somewhere else?

 

Handsignalling moves past running signals when 'shunting' (and sometimes for other reasons used to be very common practice. especially where subsidiary signals were not provided or a signal did not exist for teh route the move was taking.

 

Ar one of my \boxesin teh 1970s there was one move which was made more than a dizen times in most shifts - so very regular - but no goround disc existed to signal that move so it was always hand-signalled by the Signalman (and that continued until the 'box was removed as part of layout alterations and full resignalling in the 1980s)

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

... The signalman "not bothering" to pull off the semaphore seems unlikely, since pulling a lever is easier than giving a hand signal, ...

 The Bobby would have to pull a lever or two to set the road anyway !

[Wheatley]

Running round anything (usually ballasts) at Penistone after the MSW closed was done by talking drivers past signals (too far for handsignals) because the loop was fully track circuited, there were no subs or GPLs in the L&Y platform, and whatever you were running round was holding  at least one of the signals you needed at danger.

 

Jeremy is correct too, pulling a lever much easier than faffing about waving flags out of windows.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Wheatley