Bracket signals

[TravisM]

Not sure if this has been asked before but I was wondering when bracket signals would be used?  As I know very little about semaphore signals, but I assumed that they would be used where clearance’s tight and signal sighting might be an issue.  Any information would be most helpful.

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, jools1959 said:

Not sure if this has been asked before but I was wondering when bracket signals would be used?  As I know very little about semaphore signals, but I assumed that they would be used where clearance’s tight and signal sighting might be an issue.  Any information would be most helpful.

 

Whenever required so that the driver can clearly see the signal arm as they approach it is the answer.

 

As with everything else to do with signalling, the location of signals was determined by operation needs - not some rigid design 'cut and pasted' from some template in a book.

 

The primary function of signalling is to give instructions to drivers - and that requires the actual signal arm / signal head to be positioned accordingly - and NOT just because its where the supporting structure (i.e. signal post) may have been erected.

 

As with todays colour light signalling, if things (be they railway structures, bridges, or simply the lines curvature) mean that good sighting cannot be had of the semaphore signal*  then the signal arm will need moving off said traditional straight lineside post and onto a bracket so that it can be positioned to the right or the left of said post as the circumstances dictate.

 

* In the modern context we are talking about the driver being able to see the signal for 10 seconds as they approach it - with the final 5 seconds being  completely uninterrupted sighting (which means you cannot have ANYTHING, be it OLE supports, canopy supports, vegetation, etc not just stuff like bridges getting in the way) at the maximum line speed permissible - which can obviously be a significant distance when you consider just how much distance a vehicle travelling at 75mph can travel in 5 seconds for example)

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by phil-b259

[Edwin_m]

With semaphore signalling the normal arrangement approaching a diverging junction would be to have one stop (red/white) signal arm for each onward route, arranged left to right to correspond with the routes themselves.  There might also be a distant arm (yellow/black) below some or all of these, plus shunting signals if required.  Thus, a junction signal would have to be either a bracket or a gantry.  Where space was limited the arms might be arranged top (for leftmost) to bottom (for rightmost) on a single post, but this was very unusual.  

[phil-b259]

11 minutes ago, Edwin_m said:

With semaphore signalling the normal arrangement approaching a diverging junction would be to have one stop (red/white) signal arm for each onward route, arranged left to right to correspond with the routes themselves.  There might also be a distant arm (yellow/black) below some or all of these, plus shunting signals if required.  Thus, a junction signal would have to be either a bracket or a gantry.  Where space was limited the arms might be arranged top (for leftmost) to bottom (for rightmost) on a single post, but this was very unusual.  

 

Bracket signals were not just found at junctions!

 

A bracket signal simply refers to a signal which happens to be on a bracket structure. It could be just a single arm on a bracket bolted to a retaining wall or an arm on a bracket off a standard post a where a sharp curve ideally requires the signal to effectively be mounted in the 6ft for sighting purposes but quite obviously you cannot usually go round putting signals in the 6ft of a traditional double track line.

 

Dapol make such signals.... https://www.Dapol.co.uk/products/4l-001-007-bracket-signal-gwr-right-hand-with-one-arm?variant=43341687488735

Edited October 21, 2023 by phil-b259

[Jeremy Cumberland]

The other side of the equation is the post. The arm needs to be where it can be seen by the driver, and the post needs to be where it won't cause an obstruction and where there is suitable ground. If you can't put a post where the signal arm needs to be, then a bracket signal may be the answer.

[Edwin_m]

10 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Bracket signals were not just found at junctions!

 

A bracket signal simply refers to a signal which happens to be on a bracket structure. It could be just a single arm on a bracket bolted to a retaining wall or an arm on a bracket off a standard post a where a sharp curve ideally requires the signal to effectively be mounted in the 6ft for sighting purposes but quite obviously you cannot usually go round putting signals in the 6ft of a traditional double track line.

 

Dapol make such signals.... https://www.Dapol.co.uk/products/4l-001-007-bracket-signal-gwr-right-hand-with-one-arm?variant=43341687488735

Agreed, but I considered you'd covered the non-junction uses pretty comprehensively in your previous post.  

[The Stationmaster]

Bracket signals various -

 

A splitting signal - theree sepoarate dolls in the is case with each arm reading to a different route.  The relative elevation of teh arms accords with the relative importance of teh routes the signal reads to.  and yes, this is teh back of the siganl - Severn Bridge Jcn, Salop (and yes, I had teh necessary persnal tracjk safety qualification to be there)

 

 

In this case the arms read to routes of equal impotrtnace - Birmingham Railway Museum Tyseely, signal reconstructed to my specification from recovered components.

 

Reading WR S&TE Drawing Office standard design bracket used here for two parallel lines woth 4 asoect colour light signal heads.

 

Two doll splitting bracket  - St Erth Up Main Inner Home Signal -  - arm on the right hand dopll reads along teh Up Main Line (=most important route). arm on the left hand doll reads to the St Ives branch (= less important route)

 

Three doll bracket serving threeo different functions (and long gone). The right hand doll has Reading Mainline East's Up Main Through Line Home Signal - sited well to the right of the line to which it applies -  in this case ro not only serve the line in the middle but to improve sighting on the curving approach.  The centre doll is the continuation of the main post and carries Reading Main Line East's Down Main Starting Signal and Main Line West's Distant reading to theh Down Main Line. the left hand doll carries Main Line West's Distant reading to the Berks & Hants Linre.  So in this case a splitting distant below a single stop signal (which also has a subsidiary Calling On arm

 

 

 

The other use of bracket structures was to improve the sighting of sifgnals by bringing them closer to  the view of a Driver approaching teh signal.  In this case an LMS dstructure onn a p ;eisure railway at Havethwaite.  Notre the signal applies to a lonre to teh right, not to tthe one visible in teh foreground.

 

Standard Reading bracket used here to place a signal head to the left of the line to which it appllis - the platform line in this case.

 

[simon b]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry to move off topic, but anyone know what wagon type that is? Not one I'm familiar with.

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, simon b said:

Sorry to move off topic, but anyone know what wagon type that is? Not one I'm familiar with.

Haven't got a clue what the TOPS code was when it arrived but it's a  bogie coil wagon for the transport of hot rolled coil (HRC).  They had a thin layer of ballast spread on the wagon floor because when the coil was laded it was still red hot (normally cherry red in the middle of the coil to be precise) - lovely of you ewere riding in teh brakecvan at teh back of the train on a frosty day - no need for the van stove.

 

The train is from Port Talbot steelworks - loaded with coil more or less directly off the rolling line and will be destined for either Trostre or Velindre tinplate works at the western end of the Swansea District Line.  The photo was taken on a Sunday and the operation ran seven days a week for many years.  I was still at  school when I took that photo - on a Sunday spotting trip to South Wales - but not too many years later I had a trip in the brakevan of one of those coil trains and was even paid for doing it.

[5BarVT]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Reading WR S&TE Drawing Office standard design bracket used here for two parallel lines woth 4 asoect colour light signal heads.

Under construction?  No handrail yet, and RH head looks covered over, but is there a light in the LH head?

Down Relief (or was it Down Goods then) @ Port Talbot?

Paul.

[The Stationmaster]

On 22/10/2023 at 16:30, 5BarVT said:

Under construction?  No handrail yet, and RH head looks covered over, but is there a light in the LH head?

Down Relief (or was it Down Goods then) @ Port Talbot?

Paul.

No - the light has washed out the handrail but it is vaguely visible if you look closely.  The signals had been in use for a few years before I took that photo but the light wasn't really much help for the signal.  

 

The 1969 Sectional Appendix shows it as the Down Relief but an early edition of Quail shows it as the Down Goods with a trap so it might possibly have been reclassified at some time because of the trap.  I'm fairly sure that during the station rebuilding it was at one stage a temporary platform line.  And yes - it is indeed Port Talbot