Swansea traffic types. (not coal)

[Richard_A]

Apart from the obvious such as coal and metal exports what types of goods did swansea Docks handle? 

 

I know that chemicals were handled as well but would this just have been tankers for Llandarcy? 

 

Were there any food stuffs  and timber imported? 

 

I imagine that plenty of cargo types passed through but nearly every picture of the Docks is coal traffic. 

[br2975]

                   

A quick look through my various notes reveals a few traffic flows into the area;

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Sulphuric Acid tank wagons to/from Six Pit Junc. for National Smelting Co. (Private owner)

Zinc concentrates to Six Pit Junction for National Smelting Co. (16 ton mineral wagon)

Steel coil to Swansea Docks for West Wales Shipping  (Coil C)

Steel coil to Swansea, King's Dock 'B' Shed for Bethell Gwyn (13 ton High)

Steel coil to Swansea, King's Dock 'A' Shed for Bethell Gwyn (20 ton Shochood)

Steel coil to Swansea, King's Dock 'B' Shed for Houlder Brothers (13 ton Shock Open)

Tinplatel to Swansea, King's Dock 'B' Shed for Houlder Brothers (12 ton Shock Van)

Coal to Felin Fran for D.G.Fisher (16 ton Mineral)

Steel rods for export to Swansea, King's Dock for GKN (22 ton Plate)

 

Coal (for shipment) was labelled to Burrows Sidings from a number of South Wales forwarding points.

 

Through traffic

Seed potatos in 12 ton vans from Scotland to locations in West Wales eg Pembroke / Pembroke Dock.

RNAD traffic in 12 ton vans from various locations to West Wales eg Milford Haven 

Pulp nuts or shredded pulp in 12 ton vans to locations in West Wales eg Llanelli for Powell, Harvey or Spillers, or Llanelli & District Farm Supplies.

Unknown military plant on 22 ton Plate to Llandovery for 61 Field Support Squadron.

Unknown military plant on 30 ton Rectank  to Llandovery for 15 H/Q Squadron R.E.

Empty 40ton GirdWag WG from Toton to Llandovery for unknown use.

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A list of 'terminals' in the Swansea area may produce some other ideas.

I'll check my copy.

Edited October 23, 2023 by br2975

[br2975]

Some interesting freight generating or receiving  'terminals'  in the greater Swansea area;

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Swansea Eastern Depot C.C.D.

Felin Fran C.C.D.

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Llanelly Steel Co.

S.C.O.W. Trostre Works

S.C.O.W. Velindre Works

Briton Ferry Steel Co.

RTB Swansea, Upper Bank

Neath, Metal Box

Mond / International Nickel, Clydach-on-Tawe.

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Carmarthen Bay Power Station

Tir John Power Station

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Swansea St. Thomas C&W

Danygraig C&W

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Neath Civ. Eng. Depot

Neath S&T Depot

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Llandarcy, National Oil Refineries (BP)

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Most are coal or steel related.

 

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, br2975 said:

Some interesting freight generating or receiving  'terminals'  in the greater Swansea area;

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Swansea Eastern Depot C.C.D.

Felin Fran C.C.D.

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Llanelly Steel Co.

S.C.O.W. Trostre Works

S.C.O.W. Velindre Works

Briton Ferry Steel Co.

RTB Swansea, Upper Bank

Neath, Metal Box

Mond / International Nickel, Clydach-on-Tawe.

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Carmarthen Bay Power Station

Tir John Power Station

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Swansea St. Thomas C&W

Danygraig C&W

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Neath Civ. Eng. Depot

Neath S&T Depot

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Llandarcy, National Oil Refineries (BP)

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Most are coal or steel related.

 

To which add:-  Duffryn, King's Dock and Duffryn warehoses  (tinplate stores for SCOW. As well as the three warehouses in Swansea,, the Burry Works in Llanelli was also converted.

There were a pair of scrappies on the Swansea Valley line, whilst Llanelli had the Bachelor Robinson tin and steel recovery plant.

[Compound2632]

What dates does the info in these various posts apply to?

[Richard_A]

Thank you Brian's. 

 

I was looking for ideas for incoming freight such as imported timber as I know there was a timber merchant near paxton street, and if the weavers complex had grain imported via ship or if it had rail deliveries. 

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, rka said:

Apart from the obvious such as coal and metal exports what types of goods did swansea Docks handle? 

 

I know that chemicals were handled as well but would this just have been tankers for Llandarcy? 

 

Were there any food stuffs  and timber imported? 

 

I imagine that plenty of cargo types passed through but nearly every picture of the Docks is coal traffic. 

Queens Dock handled oil tankers with, I think, a pipeline connection to Llandarcy refinery - it had no coal tips and judging by maps no warehousing either.

 

Hafod Yard, by High Street station was the GWR general freight depot and of course there was an LNWR depot and warehouse there ar one time as well - down near South Dock I think.  Depending on the period you are modelling there was lot of local trip working between yards and depots on bith sides of the river and across the river as well - good idea to look out photos on the 'net as there are some good ones to be found if you like small tank engmnes.

[Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, rka said:

Thank you Brian's. 

 

I was looking for ideas for incoming freight such as imported timber as I know there was a timber merchant near paxton street, and if the weavers complex had grain imported via ship or if it had rail deliveries. 

What period are you looking at?? The timber merchant was at South Dock, which was also where the fishing boats docked. The company was 'Gregors'. I don't think there was any traffic from there after the early 1860s. 'The impressive 'Weavers' building dealt with imported grain. It's definitely worth looking out for a copy of 'The Red Dragon...', which has a lot of large format photos of traffic around the Dock Lines. This link might be of interest:- http://www.swanseadocks.co.uk/

Mike mentioned the Queen's Dock oil terminal; my father was fre-watching on the nights of the Swansea Blitz, when the the tank farm was hit by bombs. He said it was light enough to read by , and that was twelve miles away, in Lllanellii.

[Richard_A]

Thanks again, 

 

You know what, I have the red dragon book, I didn't even think to look in it! 

 

My interests lie in the late 60's but swansea was pretty much down at heal then it would seem, with masses of rail closures and rebuilding the Swansea vale. 

 

Everything is too spread out to try and make a plausible what if model. 

[br2975]

The following pages are extracted from a BR (WR) Local WTT or Sectional Appendix dating from around 1963.

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I know the entries relate to several years before Richard's chosen time period, but it may give an idea of  Swansea area trip freight workings that would dwindle over the next few years.

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Unfortunately, I have little other info for the Swansea area for the late 60s / early 70s, as my interests lay further east in the Principality.

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[Fat Controller]

Thanks for posting that, Brian. Just had a look at the site dedicated to Swansea Docks. There are some shots of Shochood Bs as late as 198 at King's Dock.

[KeithHC]

There was also the wagon works as well. Did Gower chemicals that took over the old Danygraig shed get an rail delivery’s.

 

Keith

[Richard_A]

3 hours ago, br2975 said:

The following pages are extracted from a BR (WR) Local WTT or Sectional Appendix dating from around 1963.

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I know the entries relate to several years before Richard's chosen time period, but it may give an idea of  Swansea area trip freight workings that would dwindle over the next few years.

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Unfortunately, I have little other info for the Swansea area for the late 60s / early 70s, as my interests lay further east in the Principality.

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Wow, thank you very much. 

[br2975]

5 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Thanks for posting that, Brian. Just had a look at the site dedicated to Swansea Docks. There are some shots of Shochood Bs as late as 198 at King's Dock.

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You're (always) welcome Brian.

[br2975]

As a matter of interest Rich, do you have a copy of this ?

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You may find it interesting, and also the other editions that cover the greater Swansea area.

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There are details of many private sidings and rail served industries in Tony Cooke's books.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by br2975

[Richard_A]

Hi Brian, 

 

No I don't, but I think that I should start looking for them. 

[Steven B]

There are some good photos on Flickr, including this trio showing van traffic:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Richard_A]

1 hour ago, Steven B said:

There are some good photos on Flickr, including this trio showing van traffic:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for these, I haven't come across them. 

 

Flickr is obviously something I need to look at more often. 

 

Are the wagons behind the saddle tank insulated ones? 

[hmrspaul]

25 minutes ago, rka said:

 

 

Are the wagons behind the saddle tank insulated ones? 

The white ones are Fish vans, so yes they are insulated but not the smaller BR insulated meat van. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfish

 

The one with 41535 is one of the attractive plywood bodied vans built by the LNER post war https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercoveredmerchandise/e35ae2760

 

Paul

[Fat Controller]

Looking at the photos of dock traffic, the view with the Insulfishes is at South Dock, I believe, which was  dedicated to timber and fish traffic. 

 

[The Stationmaster]

16 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Looking at the photos of dock traffic, the view with the Insulfishes is at South Dock, I believe, which was  dedicated to timber and fish traffic. 

 

Looks as if it is on the south side of the South Dock basin where the new fish handling buildings were created in 1904 (according to the website).   Looking roughly north east in order to get that high ground in the background at that angle.

[Fat Controller]

14 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Looks as if it is on the south side of the South Dock basin where the new fish handling buildings were created in 1904 (according to the website).   Looking roughly north east in order to get that high ground in the background at that angle.

Kilvey Hill; I remember there being  a solitary tree on its slopes, back in the 1960s. These days, it's veritably verdant.

[Richard_A]

3 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

The white ones are Fish vans, so yes they are insulated but not the smaller BR insulated meat van. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfish

 

The one with 41535 is one of the attractive plywood bodied vans built by the LNER post war https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercoveredmerchandise/e35ae2760

 

Paul

Thank you. 

[Bilbo]

I remember wooden pit props which were imported.They were cut to length on the docks and the resulting offcuts were plentiful. A local charity collected them every so often and sold them as logs for a log fire or they were cut as sticks for fire lighting.Every so often a 7/8 plank wagon would be filled with these offcuts which were then taken to a convenient sidings and reloaded on a lorry from another nearby wood merchant which I think was Hughes & Morgan/Hughes Morgan and taken to a wood yard the charity had rented.There was the occasional cut head when the log being thrown into the railway wagon overshot and hit someone on the other side on the head . No Health & Safety then !!!

[br2975]

9 hours ago, Steven B said:

 

 

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D2122 was one of three Landore allox Cl.03s which in 1968/1969 were shown as fitted with a warning bell for use at Swansea Docks.

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Those fitted were D2120, 2121 & 2122.

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For the same duties, the following 4 Landore Cl.03s were fitted with R/T equipment, namely D2120, 2121, 2122, 2125.

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Another 'oddity' that fequented Burrows, Danygraig, Eastern Depot was Landore's Cl.08s D3744 & 3758 which were two of the 6 South Wales 08s  fitted with snow plough brackets at the front (radiator) end only.

The others were D3258, 3748, 3819, 3821.

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On Thursday, 10th. April 1969 D2122, complete with bell was Fishguard Harbour station pilot, but was back at Eastern Depot the following month..

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