Kitmaster HO

[5050]

What a pity the UK didn't follow the US in making OO gauge 19mm.  There would have been no need for EM or possibly even P4 and all UK outline modellers would be part of a nationwide happy band of brothers.

 

Possibly....................😇

[roythebus1]

If anyone's interested,  friend passed away earlier this year and has left a small collection of Kitmaster French and German coaches for disposal. A couple are built, a couple more part- built and some fully built. there's also about 8 Interfrigo in similar states of build and a part-built Kitmaster Beyer-Garrett. I believe all the parts are there.

 

The Kitmaster German coaches compare very well dimensionally and visually with the Roco equivalent in my collection.

 

Back in the early 1970s I remember speaking with Charlie Skelton (who used to own W&H Models) at the Toy Fair at Earls Court. I'd recently got into making cast metal bus kits, but we spoke about "modern image" models for the UK market. the term Modern Image was by then over 10 years old... He said the European firms weren't interested as the UK market was too small for them. The Europeans  collect models not to run but to collect. Anything HO would sell literally tens of thousands all round the world. Anything in 00 would only sell in the UK, the rest of the world wouldn't be interested. It wasn't worth their while doing. run of say a class 47 and struggle to sell 5000 when they could sell 50,000 of a French loco. Of course back then British liveries were quite limited, for diesels generally green or blue! And the reason for the lower detail standards was that the Brits wouldn't pay continental prices for decent models.

Edited October 31, 2023 by roythebus1

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

And the reason for the lower detail standards was that the Brits wouldn't pay continental prices for decent models.

 

A widely held belief at the time but I have my doubts.  The manufacturers certainly believed it, presumably as a result of market research (and possibly in the awareness that the more costly of the two major players of the 60s, HD, considered to be 'better quality', had recently gone under, though that was not entirely due to poor market performance of the model railway side), but the very large number of customers who deserted them for European and American prototypes did so specifically because models of those were available that were not only much better detailed but ran superbly.  Most of those came back to UK-outline modelling as the standard of RTR improved throughout the 80s and 90s, and there must have been many more who put up with the poor quality of British RTR because they were not interested in European or American railways and the poor quality was all that was available precisely because of this belief.

 

In the event, nobody stuck their necks out with decent quality and good running until the whole trade gradually worked through a sequence of self improvement, but it would have been interesting to see what the market would have made of Rapido or Accurascale's approach forty years ago!

[roythebus1]

You may well be right there to a degree. I got fed up with having to modify or super-detail everything British outline in the 1980s. I visited Germany in 1981 and made friends with a DB Lokfuehrer who I m still friends with now. I was impressed with the DB of that era and of the models that were available. As a result I built a small DB exhibition layout. 

 

As you rightly say it's only with the advent of the super-detail British stuff we have now that I've gone back to British modelling.

[Philou]

As Alfie Bass would have said, 'Never mind the quality, feel the width'.

 

Just an observation, I have some continental stock dating from the 60s and to be frank, unless you bought Fleischmann, the rest was pants - even some of the cheap end of the Fleischmann looks - well - cheap.

 

I'm glad we have our 00, it doesn't look out of place on the club's layout over here and I believe it to be more correctly proportioned (track/scale notwithstanding) than some offerings, especially steam, made right now on the continent.

 

I would much prefer that we got away from 'it's gotta run on 2nd radius' and have 'proper' models - goes for the continentals as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Il Grifone]

The trouble with British 00/19mm would be the lack of width in the protoype. The Americans don't have this problem. They have a larger loading gauge and don't have low footplates and splashers. It's bad enough with EM!

 

I'm afraid we are stuck with, "It's gotta run on 2nd radius". Most of us don't have space for anything larger. I would agree that flangeless wheels in a rigid truck are awful ('unacceptable' in my book!).

 

Many excuses for the demise of Meccano Ltd. have been put forward. My opinion is we can blame the slot car craze, coupled with the Dublo 'only diesels/electrics policy - we were all steam fans back then - and Tri-ang's lower prices - Dublo's superior quality didn't compensate. (For example, compare the Dublo Bulleid Pacific with Tri-ang's! (or their 08 shunters) - I bought neither back then prefering a Dean single, though I did indulge in a half price bargain 3 rail 8F.)

[Il Grifone]

Rereading a few months on, I realise I forgot another reason for Meccano Limited's demise - Meccano itself. The advent of Lego with its push together plastic bricks was a lot less hassle than bolting metal strips together, despite the high price of said bricks. My brother and I had a lot of fun making buildings (to 00 scale) with Airfix's much more reasonble 2/- a packet version. This must have hurt the sales of Bayko, which was added to the Meccano empire about then. The growing safety concerns about toys wouldn't have helped with either Bayko or the junior Dinky Builder - pushing rods through holes was a definite must to avoid!  My Lotto chemistry set (100% no-no today) already had a blank in the instructions, where once there had been an experiment involving the mixing of saltpetre, sulphur, and charcoal....  Across the pond, the Gilbert chemistry sets included one involving a radioactive substance. I can remember playing around with this at school - my luminous wristwatch upset the Geiger counter more than the radioactive source.

How did we survive? It must have been survival of the fittest!

Edited March 19 by Il Grifone

[GrumpyPenguin]

On 29/10/2023 at 23:52, kevinlms said:

But even the 15" gauge track of the Romney, Hythe & Dymchurch is wrong as the locos are to 1/3 scale. So it wasn't just the smaller scale models that ended up being not in proportion.

As everything was essentially built to order I can never understand why a more accurate gauge was not used.

[Il Grifone]

It was was a foible of Mr. Greenly. He insisted that the body should be to a larger scale than the works/underframe, Why he should have suffered from this aberration I am unaware, though it does allow more space for the works of course.

 

Across the pond they have the opposite problem (hence U.S. 00 gauge being 19mm). The larger loading gauge and lack of splashers etc. means there is plenty of room. In addition, their rolling stock generally is built with a central longitudinal member, rather than the external solebars preferred over here, This again favours a wider gauge.

 

Edited March 19 by Il Grifone