Fitting Sound to 'Old' Hornby Black 5

[zr2498]

Even though Hornby have a new model of the Black 5 on the way, the 'old' model is still very good. I have some detailing kits somewhere?

 

 

I had a pair of these (end of steam issue), needing an upgrade to sound. Mike Wild had done a sound installation into one of these models, where the DCC Ready decoder 8 pin socket is in the loco, rather than modern day located in the tender. That installation is described in 'Hornby Magazine, Beginners Guide - Digital Sound'.

I have used the same D & H sound decoder and Rails Exclusive speaker. This project was an attempt to take the installation a little further' with a stay alive and firebox flicker.

This is the kit used:

 

 

First, the tender. This has a heavy weight which will need to be compensated for, as it had to be removed.

 

 

To make room for the speaker, the spigot for the weight for cut down, and the lug in the tender body clipped off.

 

 

To wire the speaker and a stay alive to the decoder (in the loco), a 4 pin micro connector was used.

 

 

A 2mm diameter hole was drilled in the tender floor for the 4 wires.

 

 

To start adding some weight, lead shot was fixed with neat PVA

 

 

The speaker was glued in place, and the Zen stay alive fitted to the tender body with black tack. Extra weight were also added to the sides of the speaker (giving clearance to the wheels), and in the tender body.

 

 

Connections were made for the speaker and stay alive, plus heat shrink. 4 pin micro wires (red stay alive +ve, orange stay alive -ve, black and grey to speaker). Wiring tidied, keeping clear of the stay alive and the front tender wheel . The second spigot for the weight was also clipped off to give clearance for the stay alive.

 

 

Tender body fitted. The rear of the tender was held fast by some black tack as the original lug had been removed.

 

 

Now to the locomotive. A D & H decoder AS16A-2 was used. This will fit into the smoke box. Note that a ESU loksound V5 will not fit into the smoke box (too wide).

 

 

The stay alive connections to the decoder. Red positive to pad 6 (VS), and Orange negative to pad 5 (GND). This will eventually connect to Blue +ve and Black -ve on the Zen stay alive.

 

 

Decoder diagram.

 

 

For the firebox flicker LED, the wire from pad 6 (VS) was connected to the same feed to the resistor and LED,  +ve side (yellow wire), and the return wire from the LED -ve side was returned to AUX 3 pad on the decoder (dark blue wire).

 

 

There is virtually no room behind the firebox backplate to place the LED in a reasonable position. So a compromise, with a 4mm hole instead of the usually 3mm to get the legs of the resistor sitting flush to the back plate (as shown below).

 

 

Insulated - keeping the holes in the backplate clear, where the lugs on the chassis fit when pushing the chassis backwards on refit of the body.

 

 

That is a lot of wires, and it takes some effort to get the body back on without trapping wires. I split the  4 new wires from the tender into 2 X 2 to route around the side of the motor, and stuffed as much as possible into the smoke box. The decoder was covered with hot tape to prevent possible shorts.

 

It all worked 🙂 Fantastic sound, with Locoman's sound files and the large speaker.

But, I'm not really happy with the how far the LED sticks out of the firebox. I might make it less obvious with a couple of crew blocking the view from the side. I might also look for another way to do the flicker. Paul Chetter showed the use of an LED cut from a lighting strip. Perhaps that would be shallow enough?

 

 

 

[Harlequin]

 

[zr2498]

8 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

Thanks for the warning. Only used in tenders, so perhaps no problem? Anyway, will use cyano from now on.

[matchmaker]

Very useful - I've just bought the same loco. Unfortunately, the decoder you used is currently out of stock.

On 29/10/2023 at 12:12, zr2498 said:

Even though Hornby have a new model of the Black 5 on the way, the 'old' model is still very good. I have some detailing kits somewhere?

 

 

I had a pair of these (end of steam issue), needing an upgrade to sound. Mike Wild had done a sound installation into one of these models, where the DCC Ready decoder 8 pin socket is in the loco, rather than modern day located in the tender. That installation is described in 'Hornby Magazine, Beginners Guide - Digital Sound'.

I have used the same D & H sound decoder and Rails Exclusive speaker. This project was an attempt to take the installation a little further' with a stay alive and firebox flicker.

This is the kit used:

 

 

First, the tender. This has a heavy weight which will need to be compensated for, as it had to be removed.

 

 

To make room for the speaker, the spigot for the weight for cut down, and the lug in the tender body clipped off.

 

 

To wire the speaker and a stay alive to the decoder (in the loco), a 4 pin micro connector was used.

 

 

A 2mm diameter hole was drilled in the tender floor for the 4 wires.

 

 

To start adding some weight, lead shot was fixed with neat PVA

 

 

The speaker was glued in place, and the Zen stay alive fitted to the tender body with black tack. Extra weight were also added to the sides of the speaker (giving clearance to the wheels), and in the tender body.

 

 

Connections were made for the speaker and stay alive, plus heat shrink. 4 pin micro wires (red stay alive +ve, orange stay alive -ve, black and grey to speaker). Wiring tidied, keeping clear of the stay alive and the front tender wheel . The second spigot for the weight was also clipped off to give clearance for the stay alive.

 

 

Tender body fitted. The rear of the tender was held fast by some black tack as the original lug had been removed.

 

 

Now to the locomotive. A D & H decoder AS16A-2 was used. This will fit into the smoke box. Note that a ESU loksound V5 will not fit into the smoke box (too wide).

 

 

The stay alive connections to the decoder. Red positive to pad 6 (VS), and Orange negative to pad 5 (GND). This will eventually connect to Blue +ve and Black -ve on the Zen stay alive.

 

 

Decoder diagram.

 

 

For the firebox flicker LED, the wire from pad 6 (VS) was connected to the same feed to the resistor and LED,  +ve side (yellow wire), and the return wire from the LED -ve side was returned to AUX 3 pad on the decoder (dark blue wire).

 

 

There is virtually no room behind the firebox backplate to place the LED in a reasonable position. So a compromise, with a 4mm hole instead of the usually 3mm to get the legs of the resistor sitting flush to the back plate (as shown below).

 

 

Insulated - keeping the holes in the backplate clear, where the lugs on the chassis fit when pushing the chassis backwards on refit of the body.

 

 

That is a lot of wires, and it takes some effort to get the body back on without trapping wires. I split the  4 new wires from the tender into 2 X 2 to route around the side of the motor, and stuffed as much as possible into the smoke box. The decoder was covered with hot tape to prevent possible shorts.

 

It all worked 🙂 Fantastic sound, with Locoman's sound files and the large speaker.

But, I'm not really happy with the how far the LED sticks out of the firebox. I might make it less obvious with a couple of crew blocking the view from the side. I might also look for another way to do the flicker. Paul Chetter showed the use of an LED cut from a lighting strip. Perhaps that would be shallow enough?

 

 

 

 

[zr2498]

2 hours ago, matchmaker said:

Very useful - I've just bought the same loco. Unfortunately, the decoder you used is currently out of stock.

 

Pleased that the thread has proved useful.

It might be worth dropping Alessandro (Locoman Sounds) an email to see when those decoders are back in stock. The ESU V5 Loksound will not fit the smokebox. Might be worth the wait?

I have recently got some low profile LEDs from Kytes Lights so that 'stuck out' LED may get changed soon, and I will update the thread.

[Locoman58]

Alessandro is here

How can i help?

[zr2498]

1 hour ago, Locoman58 said:

Alessandro is here

How can i help?

Good evening Alessandro.

@matchmaker found the installation into the Black 5 useful, but we would bth like to know when the D & H AS16A-2 8 pin decoders will be back in stock.

 

Dave

[matchmaker]

Alessandro has e-mailed me, the decoder is back in stock and I've already ordered one. Many thanks @Locoman58 and @zr2498

[matchmaker]

Decoder arrived this morning. Great service from Alessandro.