The 1E54 06:50 Paddington to Hull service in 1985

[18B]

Hi, 

 

Just why was there a The 1E54 06:50 Paddington to Hull service in 1985 (and presumably other years?) that ran via Sheffield, it just seems such an incongruous service.  

[rodent279]

ISTR it split at Sheffield, with a portion to Newcastle and a portion to Hull. The return working was a Hull- Poole which joined a Newcastle-Poole at Sheffield, being shunted onto said service by one of Sheffield Midland's resident shunters.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I can't remember when Paddington-Reading-Oxford-Birmingham got integrated into Cross Country, but it lasted for several years. I presume there was more demand for Reading-Oxford-Birmingham-the North than there was for destinations south of Reading, and of course there was still the need for Paddington-Oxford-Banbury-Leamington, so the two routes overlapped.

 

I think the Hull/Leeds train only worked in 1984-6, and the return working went to Brighton; clearly there was no attempt to cater for through Brighton - Sheffield/Leeds/Hull travellers, for the only northbound workings from Brighton were to Manchester and Derby.

[hexagon789]

12 hours ago, 18B said:

Hi, 

 

Just why was there a The 1E54 06:50 Paddington to Hull service in 1985 (and presumably other years?) that ran via Sheffield, it just seems such an incongruous service.  

It was introduced in the May 1984 timetable, and was one of the several major changes that year particularly to Cross-Country services.

 

As well as many new innovations and improvements, there was also a significant consideration to making economies.

 

This saw a reworking of much of the NE-SW HST service, reversion of certain high-demand Paddington - West Country workings to high-capacity LHCS. Cut in midday Paddington HST services. Euston - Liverpool reduced to 90 min frequency off-peak (Manchester followed in 1985). King's Cross to Newcastle semi-fast HSTs cut back to Doncaster etc etc.

 

As part of these economies, which also involved a great deal of study into what journeys passengers actually made and where there was greater demand - it was deemed that the North East & North Humberside were not adequately served, hence most Newcastle-bound NE-SW HSTs were routed via and called at Doncaster now. Additionally the WELest Midlakds - North Humberside XC workings were integrated into the Paddington -Oxford - West Midlands services. This enabled more efficient working of stock and as a by-product provided direct through services.

 

Concurrently there was a move to switch more of the Birmingham - Oxford - Paddington services away from Paddington to destinations on the South cost, such as Poole and Brighton with Oxford being developed as an interchange station between shuttles to Paddington (including newly introduced off-peak HST workings) and trains to/from the West Midlands and further afield.

 

One of the primary reasons behind these changes was the desire to develop the Gatwick Airport service, a lucrative source of income. 1984 was of course when the improved dedicated Airport Express service commenced, with air-conditioned push-pull sets and a 0530-2300, including Sundays, 15-min frequency.

 

There were many other changes in 1984, which was possibly the year with the most changes countrywide of any timetable in the 1980s. 

 

Some tinkering occurred throughout the rest of the 1980s, but the next significant timetable change affecting things across the country wasn't until the May 1989 which finally saw many of the economies of the 1984 timetable reversed with a more favourable economic climate.

 

 

[young37215]

5 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

As part of these economies, which also involved a great deal of study into what journeys passengers actually made and where there was greater demand - it was deemed that the North East & North Humberside were not adequately served, hence most Newcastle-bound NE-SW HSTs were routed via and called at Doncaster now.

 

The change in route of NE/SW trains to using the ECML to Doncaster and across to Sheffield was largely driven by the problems caused by mining subsidence old the Cudworth and Normanton route.  It suited the narrative to sell it as a response to demand but the reality was the economic environment and political will meant that most decisions were cost driven and there was no cash to fund the remedial work that the old route needed. 

 

Nearly 40 years have passed and not a lot has changed!

 

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, 18B said:

Hi, 

 

Just why was there a The 1E54 06:50 Paddington to Hull service in 1985 (and presumably other years?) that ran via Sheffield, it just seems such an incongruous service.  

However it was even more incongruous when there was a Paddington - Edinburgh XC train - which was sent away on its first departure from Paddington by a piper playing stirring tunes on the bagpipes.

[hexagon789]

59 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

However it was even more incongruous when there was a Paddington - Edinburgh XC train - which was sent away on its first departure from Paddington by a piper playing stirring tunes on the bagpipes.

Introduced 1983 as I recall, and went to both Edinburgh AND Glasgow - i.e. two portions. Again an 'efficiency' merger - combining a Paddington - Oxford - Birmingham with a Birmingham - Edinburgh & Glasgow.

 

It didn't last especially long, possibly just a year but an Edinburgh / Paddington did return in the 1990s, lasting until the major alterations of 2003 made in the wake of the Operation Princess timetable collapse IIRC.

[45125]

On 05/11/2023 at 22:20, rodent279 said:

ISTR it split at Sheffield, with a portion to Newcastle and a portion to Hull. The return working was a Hull- Poole which joined a Newcastle-Poole at Sheffield, being shunted onto said service by one of Sheffield Midland's resident shunters.

The service was a Paddington -Hull/lLeeds with the return Leeds/Hull- Brighton which was a 3 day MA coaching stock diagram.

[rodent279]

7 hours ago, 45125 said:

The service was a Paddington -Hull/lLeeds with the return Leeds/Hull- Brighton which was a 3 day MA coaching stock diagram.

Thanks, Leeds makes much more sense than Newcastle!

[RichardT]

On 06/11/2023 at 13:24, hexagon789 said:

It didn't last especially long, possibly just a year but an Edinburgh / Paddington did return in the 1990s, lasting until the major alterations of 2003

Thank you for that reminder! ISTR that for a year or two in the 1990s (?) there were direct through services from York to four different London termini: Paddington (as above); St Pancras (Saturdays-only MML Leeds service extended to York & Scarborough); Waterloo (service to connect into Eurostar as a short-lived sop for the cancellation of the NoL Eurostar services); and, of course, King’s Cross.  
 

RichardT

 

Edited February 26 by RichardT

[birdseyecircus]

6th May 1985. 45122 powers the 13.22 Hull - Brighton past Hessle station.

Taken with a 300mm telephoto lens from the Humber Bridge.

 

Paul

[hexagon789]

17 hours ago, birdseyecircus said:

6th May 1985. 45122 powers the 13.22 Hull - Brighton past Hessle station.

Taken with a 300mm telephoto lens from the Humber Bridge.

 

Paul

Am I missing something or is that a light engine and not the Hull/Brighton?

 

Or is that the joke? :)

[Jeremy Cumberland]

32 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

Am I missing something or is that a light engine and not the Hull/Brighton?

 

Or is that the joke? :)

I wouldn't like to say for certain, but there looks to be 4 coaches. It combined with a portion from Leeds at Sheffield.

 

The photographer did very well to get the number!

[birdseyecircus]

34 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

Am I missing something or is that a light engine and not the Hull/Brighton?

 

Or is that the joke? :)

Almost every time I  post this picture on various sites everyone seems to only see a light engine lol. 

I can assure you it's pulling 4 coaches.

 

Paul

 

[45125]

Just now, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I wouldn't like to say for certain, but there looks to be 4 coaches. It combined with a portion from Leeds at Sheffield.

 

The photographer did very well to get the number!

No doubt he saw it going in to Hull about an hour before this photo, so easy to get number. 

 

[birdseyecircus]

1 minute ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

 

 

The photographer did very well to get the number!

I ate a big bag of carrots the night before!

Seriously I saw it in bound 45 mins earlier.

[hexagon789]

8 hours ago, birdseyecircus said:

Almost every time I  post this picture on various sites everyone seems to only see a light engine lol. 

I can assure you it's pulling 4 coaches.

 

Paul

 

Definitely need me glasses on. My apologies for my error 😔