The Leek and Manifold Valley into the 21st Century.

[DavidBird]

I made an impulse purchase at the Glasgow show back in February 2023, of the Bachmann Quarry Hunslet "Britomart". Even my wife thought it was really cute, so I now need a layout for it. 

 

Rather than the obvious North Wales slate quarry, for something a little different,  I've decided on a Manifold Valley based layout. I'm originally from near Nottingham and as a child spent many day trips, weekends and longer trips in the Derbyshire Peak District to places like Matlock,  Elton, Hartington and Dovedale, and Ilam in the Manifold Valley. 

 

The history of the short-lived railway is well documented,  but in our world of "what ifs" I've come up with an alternative history. 

1. The Ecton copper ore body (mainly chalcopyrite, with lesser amounts of cuprite and malachite and increasing amounts of sphalerite zinc ore at greater depths) was not worked out and the building of the railway reinvigorated the copper mining. This received a boost with the Second World War, and continued sporadically into the 1970s. The Railway was used to transport ore to the smelter and to ship out copper ingots.

 

2. Express Dairies did not close their Ecton Creamery and continued to ship out milk via the railway. 

 

3. The railway managed to survive commercially into the 1960s, by which time it had become a tourist attraction in its own right, as well as a popular means for accessing the valleys.

 

4. The railway acquired a lot of the stock and a Baldwin loco from the Ashover Light Railway (as I can't afford £425 for a Fourdees rtr Kitson L&M 2-6-4T loco!), as well as a Quarry Hunslet fron North Wales for the branch between the mines and the smelter.

 

5. As the railway was formerly operated by the LMS it became part of  the BR(LMR) Stoke Division.  As discussed in another thread on RMWeb about the Vale of Rheidol Railway, the attitude of the Divisional Manager seems to have been "as long as it's not losing money, we're happy to keep it."  The line was subsequently sold by BR to a local company backed by the Peak District National Park, and operated and developed along similar lines to the Tallyllyn and Ffestiniog railways and is still operating successfully into the 21st century. 

 

6. I the BR era, there were occasional exchanges of locos with the VoR, and after the sale, the line formalised that policy and so locos from other narrow gauge lines are often seen visiting. 

 

So that's a revised history of the Leek and Manifold Valley Light Railway.  The purpose of starting this thread on RMWeb is to seek advice from those of you out there that have far more experience than I have of modelling in OO9.  It's also, by needing to provide regular updates here, to keep my interest focused.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by DavidBird
Mineralisation of the copper mines

[009 micro modeller]

If it’s the L&M as a modern heritage railway then presumably the transporter wagons won’t particularly figure in your plans (although if they do, please PM me as I might have something you might be interested in)?

 

2 hours ago, DavidBird said:

The history of the short-lived railway is well documented,  but in our world of "what ifs" I've come up with an alternative history. 

1. The Ecton malachite copper ore body was not worked out and the building of the railway reinvigorated the copper mining. This received a boost with the Second World War, and continued sporadically into the 1970s. The Railway was used to transport ore to the smelter and to ship out copper ingots.

 

2. Express Dairies did not close their Ecton Creamery and continued to ship out milk via the railway. 

 

3. The railway managed to survive commercially into the 1960s, by which time it had become a tourist attraction in its own right, as well as a popular means for accessing the valleys.

This all sounds great and pretty plausible. I’ve been doing a bit of background reading about the line for my current project (which isn’t supposed to be a Leek & Manifold model but does feature transporter wagons) and the idea of it staying as a BR-operated tourist railway and eventually becoming a privately owned heritage line, Rheidol-style, is an interesting one (possibly a bit predicated on the connecting standard gauge passenger services to Hulme End continuing to run, but you can imagine that they did). I did also wonder how things would have worked out if the railway had revived the copper mine as originally hoped, or if it had stayed open solely to shuttle milk tankers to Ecton after the withdrawal of other goods services. I wonder whether some sort of heavy diesel loco would have been built for the line as well eventually?

 

2 hours ago, DavidBird said:

In the BR era, there were occasional exchanges of locos with the VoR

Unfortunately this wouldn’t work, as the VoR is 2’ gauge and the L&M was 2’ 6”. Unless you imagine that it was built to the narrower gauge instead (although given the use of transporter wagons and a large loading gauge for everything else as well, it might be more plausible to imagine the VoR was built to 2’ 6” if you need to play around with the prototype gauges in this way). Of course in 009 they are all the same gauge, even though the prototypes are different. The L&M being 2’ 6” gauge is also an issue for the quarry Hunslet, but less so for the ex-WDLR Baldwin (they regauged them out to 2’ 4” and 2’ 4 1/2” for Snailbeach and Glyn Valley after all, so why not a couple more inches to 2’ 6”?). Unless I’ve misunderstood and your mine/smelter branch would be 2’ gauge and unconnected from the main L&M line?

 

Of course, if you’re not too bothered about the gauge and it’s what you want to do then crack on, it’s your layout after all (my own stuff is often vastly implausible anyway). I just thought it was worth mentioning in case it helps. Looking forward to seeing more.

[DavidBird]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

If it’s the L&M as a modern heritage railway then presumably the transporter wagons won’t particularly figure in your plans (although if they do, please PM me as I might have something you might be interested in)?

 

This all sounds great and pretty plausible. I’ve been doing a bit of background reading about the line for my current project (which isn’t supposed to be a Leek & Manifold model but does feature transporter wagons) and the idea of it staying as a BR-operated tourist railway and eventually becoming a privately owned heritage line, Rheidol-style, is an interesting one (possibly a bit predicated on the connecting standard gauge passenger services to Hulme End continuing to run, but you can imagine that they did). I did also wonder how things would have worked out if the railway had revived the copper mine as originally hoped, or if it had stayed open solely to shuttle milk tankers to Ecton after the withdrawal of other goods services. I wonder whether some sort of heavy diesel loco would have been built for the line as well eventually?

 

Unfortunately this wouldn’t work, as the VoR is 2’ gauge and the L&M was 2’ 6”. Unless you imagine that it was built to the narrower gauge instead (although given the use of transporter wagons and a large loading gauge for everything else as well, it might be more plausible to imagine the VoR was built to 2’ 6” if you need to play around with the prototype gauges in this way). Of course in 009 they are all the same gauge, even though the prototypes are different. The L&M being 2’ 6” gauge is also an issue for the quarry Hunslet, but less so for the ex-WDLR Baldwin (they regauged them out to 2’ 4” and 2’ 4 1/2” for Snailbeach and Glyn Valley after all, so why not a couple more inches to 2’ 6”?). Unless I’ve misunderstood and your mine/smelter branch would be 2’ gauge and unconnected from the main L&M line?

 

Of course, if you’re not too bothered about the gauge and it’s what you want to do then crack on, it’s your layout after all (my own stuff is often vastly implausible anyway). I just thought it was worth mentioning in case it helps. Looking forward to seeing more.

 

Thanks "009MM". I had actully considered most of these points!  The standard gauge line to Waterhouses was closed to passengers in 1935, following the L&MVR closure the previous year, and to goods in 1943.  But rail freight from Cauldon Lowe Quarry - cement for Blue Circle (now LafargeHolcim) continued to 1989.  If the narrow gauge had continued to dipatch std gauge milk tanks and metal and receive coal, it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that the short section from Caldon Jct to Waterhouses would have remained open, and possibly even for a basic tourist passenger service.

 

I had wondered about a diesel loco for the remaining commercial freight services and I like the look of the 6-coupled jackshaft drive like the Rheidol No 10., although Peveril Castle may be more appropriate for a Peak District layout.

 

Back in the real world, does anybody know what designs of NG diesels were in UK commercial service in the 1960/70s?

 

As to the gauge question, OO9 is spot on for 2ft 3", for the Tallyllyn Railway.  If us modellers are quite happy to accept OO9 as 3 inches less on the Ffestiniog or VoR, then why not also and at the same time use it for 3 inches more on the 2ft 6"? I will be quite happy to overlook the gauge differences...  Actually the mine branch would probably have been a cable-worked incline from the mine workings on the hill down to the main line, but then I wouln't have the excuse to run "Britomart".

 

I had briefly considered EM for the short standard gauge on the siding, but I've rejected that.  Because 9mm gauge is narrower than a scale 2ft 6", the ratio of 4ft 8.5" to 2ft 6" is closer to 16.5/9 than it is to 18.2/9, so the use of 00 will look closer than EM when next to the 009.  Plus I can still use the wagons on my other layout.

 

On my model, I'm intending being rather flexible on the time period, transporter wagons still in use, and privatisation-era loco exchanges at the same time!

 

Thanks very much for your interest, more updates to follow soon.

[ELTEL]

As I live in North Staffordshire I will watch this project with interest, having both walked and cycled the track bed on more than one occasion.

 

I very much like the back story all very plausible.

 

I wish you well with the project.

 

Terry 

 

 

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, DavidBird said:

As to the gauge question, OO9 is spot on for 2ft 3", for the Tallyllyn Railway.  If us modellers are quite happy to accept OO9 as 3 inches less on the Ffestiniog or VoR, then why not also and at the same time use it for 3 inches more on the 2ft 6"? I will be quite happy to overlook the gauge differences...  Actually the mine branch would probably have been a cable-worked incline from the mine workings on the hill down to the main line, but then I wouln't have the excuse to run "Britomart".

I would usually do this as well, but probably not at the same time (so a freelance loco, even if it’s very heavily based on a real 2’ gauge loco could pretend to be 2’ gauge on one layout and 2’ 6” on another, but I wouldn’t run, say, a genuine W&LLR loco and a genuine Ffestiniog loco together). But if you’re happy with it that’s fine. Reading about the L&M, it does seem that 2’ 6” gauge (as opposed to using something wider or narrower) was a fairly integral part of Calthrop’s overall concept, because he saw it as the appropriate compromise between the cost of building the line and having sufficient carrying capacity. If it was me, I might be looking at other sources of 2’ 6” (or similar) locos that would have been available either from industry or from other common carrier lines at the time when your fictionalised surviving L&M was looking for additional stock. Nowadays they might even be using imported stuff, like Welshpool or Statfold have.

 

1 hour ago, DavidBird said:

Back in the real world, does anybody know what designs of NG diesels were in UK commercial service in the 1960/70s?

Built in or, built earlier but still in service in? I also like Rheidol no. 10 although I think it’s a later design.

 

These were British-built for Sierra Leone, in 1959:

https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/SLR_Class_101_No._105
https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/SLR_Class_120_No._133

 

They have the kind of enormous presence you might want for something like this.

 

I’ve replied via PM about the transporters as it was getting a bit complicated.

[DavidBird]

Thanks very much for your comments,  Danny. There's much to consider there.

 

I've made a start with a Tim Horn laser cut baseboard. I can thoroughly recommend them.  All the pieces went together very well and I had a very strong baseboard very quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which is where I've made my 1st mistake! I went for a single 2x3 board with backscene,  thinking that this would be relatively easy to carry single-handed.  But with the backscene boards,  it turns out to be just about on the limits of what I can carry easily.  In hindsight,  I should have gone for a 3ft x 18" board, with a separate 6" extension behind it. But that's what I've got, so that's what I will use.

[009 micro modeller]

25 minutes ago, DavidBird said:

Thanks very much for your comments,  Danny. There's much to consider there.

 

I've made a start with a Tim Horn laser cut baseboard. I can thoroughly recommend them.  All the pieces went together very well and I had a very strong baseboard very quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which is where I've made my 1st mistake! I went for a single 2x3 board with backscene,  thinking that this would be relatively easy to carry single-handed.  But with the backscene boards,  it turns out to be just about on the limits of what I can carry easily.  In hindsight,  I should have gone for a 3ft x 18" board, with a separate 6" extension behind it. But that's what I've got, so that's what I will use.

Looking very nice so far and reasonably sturdy. Do you happen to know if they do a 3’ x 1’ board (or thereabouts)? I’ve been looking at various laser cut boards for my own project (the SMS ones I often use aren’t available in quite the right size) but not really decided yet. 

[DavidBird]

The track plan will be a kidney-shaped oval, with a scenic section in front of a hollow hillside.  To get the feel of the L&MVR, it will have a steep valley side, topping out into a more-or-less flat plateau, together with a dried-up river bed across one corner.  Unfortunately I don't have the space to include the railway repeatedly crossing the river-bed. 

 

There will be a station - name yet to be decided - with an Up and Down main line with a minimal-height platform, a goods loop with a siding off the goods loop ending in a short length of standard gauge track.  The station will have basic passenger facilities, I'm thinking of using the Scalescenes 009 Structure Set in timber finish. 

 

The main line will disappear into the hollow hillside at one end into a tunnel, of sufficient loading gauge to accommodate bogie coaches and  a std gauge van on a transporter wagon; and at the other between trees to hide the hole in the hillside.

 

The quarry line will branch off the main platform line and will spiral around and up within the main-line oval, running across the visible hillside, to a mine working above the tunnel.  I need to research into what gradient the Bachmann Quarry Hunslet will tackle reliably with propelling a set of 3 Peco V-tipper wagons.

 

I've tried doing this up in AnyRail, but without much sucess.  A large sheet of paper, real points and flexitrack will be out tomorrow....

Edited November 11, 2023 by DavidBird

[DavidBird]

19 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Looking very nice so far and reasonably sturdy. Do you happen to know if they do a 3’ x 1’ board (or thereabouts)? I’ve been looking at various laser cut boards for my own project (the SMS ones I often use aren’t available in quite the right size) but not really decided yet. 

 

It is very sturdy!  He doesn't currently have a website or other product listings anywhere that I can see.   I emailed him on timhornlasercut@gmail.com and got a quote back very quickly. I get the impression it's a "made-to-order" service, but whether its a custom-made or just standard sizes I'm not sure.

[ELTEL]

If you email Tim with your particular requirements he normally gets back to you in a few days with a quote if he is able to help.

 

The baseboards are first class and all my layouts over the few years use them.

 

A.very satisfied customer 

 

Terry 

[009 micro modeller]

2 hours ago, ELTEL said:

If you email Tim with your particular requirements he normally gets back to you in a few days with a quote if he is able to help.

 

The baseboards are first class and all my layouts over the few years use them.

 

A.very satisfied customer 

 

Terry 

That’s useful to know. I had seen some other discussions that suggested he had a bit of a backlog of orders and therefore slightly longer wait times, but I don’t know if that’s still the case.

[multivac]

I'm following this with interest as  I have been interested in the line for many years and always wondered how the line would have developed if it had been preserved.

[Nearholmer]

On 10/11/2023 at 21:51, DavidBird said:

Back in the real world, does anybody know what designs of NG diesels were in UK commercial service in the 1960/70s?

The vast majority were small ones, typically c30hp and c50hp from the likes of Ruston, Motorail, and Hunslet. A 48hp Ruston is quite a capable beast, and some were sold with what amounted to ‘overdrive’ to allow them to haul loads at the sorts of speeds needed for longer distances, so one of those might work for your needs. The later build 60hp Motorails, e.g. as used at Middleton Towers Sand, were heavy haulers too, but I don’t think they did an ‘overdrive’ version, so rather slow.

 

There were small numbers of bigger locos about too, and lots of c100hp under ground in coal mines, and I’d strongly recommend these for 30” gauge: 

 

If you want to see what British industry was exporting, have a look at the locos of the Sudan Gezira Board, and the Sierra Leone Government Railway, the latter including a fair monster 2-8-2 diesel class.

 

Something inspired by the “baby class 04” 150hp locos built by/for Drewery might be a good bet, see for instance Chattenden, now preserved on the W&L, and the Harrogate Gasworks loco. They were c1950 locos, but still in full going order in the 1960s. Certainly do-able using a Farish 08 and sawn-up bits of an old Airfix kit 04, and I’m sure it’s been done before.

 

To get the right sort of loco, it would be useful to know: when you imagine it was built, and roughly what tonnage you want to haul at what speed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Nearholmer

[ELTEL]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

That’s useful to know. I had seen some other discussions that suggested he had a bit of a backlog of orders and therefore slightly longer wait times, but I don’t know if that’s still the case.

Just drop Tim a email and find out.

 

I ordered a very small bespoke baseboard  a couple of months back, I think it was less than three weeks when it arrived.

 

Terry 

[Karhedron]

On 10/11/2023 at 16:35, DavidBird said:

2. Express Dairies did not close their Ecton Creamery and continued to ship out milk via the railway. 

 

The Ecton creamery was United Dairies rather than Express but we can probably extrapolate reasonably well what might have happened.

 

Let's imagine that in the early 30s, United expanded the dairy rather than closing it. Ecton was only dispatching about 4000 gallons of milk per day to London so you would need to get it above 10,000 to be worthwhile. This would have had a knock-on effect in that Express might not have opened their Rowsley depot (which took a lot of the milk that had formerly gone to Ecton). Now instead of 2 x 2000 gallon tanks per day, we would be talking 3-4 3000 gallon tankers which might have been enough to keep the line open.

 

There were a couple of occasions when milk traffic might have ceased, I don't know how the efficiency of the narrow gauge transporter wagons would have held up during the manpower shortages in WW2 but if we are being generous, the traffic might well have survived into the BR-era. It would certainly have finished in the mid-60s when BR and the MMB signed the "Western agreement" which ended milk traffic into London on the MR and ER and concentrated traffic on the SR and WR.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

The Ecton creamery was United Dairies rather than Express but we can probably extrapolate reasonably well what might have happened.

 

Let's imagine that in the early 30s, United expanded the dairy rather than closing it. Ecton was only dispatching about 4000 gallons of milk per day to London so you would need to get it above 10,000 to be worthwhile. This would have had a knock-on effect in that Express might not have opened their Rowsley depot (which took a lot of the milk that had formerly gone to Ecton). Now instead of 2 x 2000 gallon tanks per day, we would be talking 3-4 3000 gallon tankers which might have been enough to keep the line open.

 

There were a couple of occasions when milk traffic might have ceased, I don't know how the efficiency of the narrow gauge transporter wagons would have held up during the manpower shortages in WW2 but if we are being generous, the traffic might well have survived into the BR-era. It would certainly have finished in the mid-60s when BR and the MMB signed the "Western agreement" which ended milk traffic into London on the MR and ER and concentrated traffic on the SR and WR.

I was thinking about this sort of scenario the other day and wondering if, in the event that the line stayed open only for milk traffic and not for anything else, it would have stayed narrow gauge or if standard gauge conversion would have been attempted, given the large loading gauge (rather in the way that broad gauge conversion has taken place on some Indian former metre gauge lines in recent years - not entirely successful in some cases because of the sharp curves originally surveyed for narrow gauge, and speed and weight restrictions, but allowing it to be operated by main line rolling stock).

 

I’m not familiar with the ‘Western agreement’ but would it have prevented milk traffic from Ecton to destinations outside of London?

[Karhedron]

Just a thought, points 1 and 2 in your original list might be a bit hard to reconcile as the Ecton dairy was built in the buildings once used by the copper mines as a smeltery. If the mines had not closed, the Dairy might not have been built where it was.

[Karhedron]

24 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I’m not familiar with the ‘Western agreement’ but would it have prevented milk traffic from Ecton to destinations outside of London?

 

The Western Agreement ended most milk flows apart from the the 3 primary flows from Cornwall, Devon and South Wales. There were occasional flows such as in the mid 70s, some milk was shipped from the south west to Cumbria to processed into cheese or powdered milk. This tended to be an irregular occurrence to deal with excess production rather than regular traffic. If Ecton had grown significantly and developed facilities such as cheese factory or spray dryer, there might have been occasional traffic inbound. I am not aware of any dairies on the MR or ER that continued to dispatch milk regularly by rail after the implementation of the Western Agreement.

[DavidBird]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

The Ecton creamery was United Dairies rather than Express but we can probably extrapolate reasonably well what might have happened.

 

Let's imagine that in the early 30s, United expanded the dairy rather than closing it. Ecton was only dispatching about 4000 gallons of milk per day to London so you would need to get it above 10,000 to be worthwhile. This would have had a knock-on effect in that Express might not have opened their Rowsley depot (which took a lot of the milk that had formerly gone to Ecton). Now instead of 2 x 2000 gallon tanks per day, we would be talking 3-4 3000 gallon tankers which might have been enough to keep the line open.

 

There were a couple of occasions when milk traffic might have ceased, I don't know how the efficiency of the narrow gauge transporter wagons would have held up during the manpower shortages in WW2 but if we are being generous, the traffic might well have survived into the BR-era. It would certainly have finished in the mid-60s when BR and the MMB signed the "Western agreement" which ended milk traffic into London on the MR and ER and concentrated traffic on the SR and WR.

 

I was going by Wikipaedia here, which says Express Dairies.  Of course, it was before my time...

 

But your points there are interesting, in that I can justify a more intensive service of the 3000 gallon milk tanks than actually happened.

 

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Just a thought, points 1 and 2 in your original list might be a bit hard to reconcile as the Ecton dairy was built in the buildings once used by the copper mines as a smeltery. If the mines had not closed, the Dairy might not have been built where it was.

 

In this world of "what ifs" I'm quite happy to ignore that point, just as I'm happy to treat 1ft 11.5", 2ft3 and 2ft6 gauges all as 9mm...  😆

[2E Sub Shed]

There are a number of topics on RMWeb covering aspects of the Leek & Manifold.

 

There is one giving details of a possible route of the proposed extension towards Buxton.

 

Given the limestone quarries in that area, possibly an extension to one would have given rise to some bogie hoppers for the traffic with a cross loading facility to standard gauge like the Ravenglass and Eskdale, 

 

With such investment, the LMS may have purchased/produced some other motive power, for the traffic. 

 

[009 micro modeller]

15 minutes ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

Given the limestone quarries in that area, possibly an extension to one would have given rise to some bogie hoppers for the traffic with a cross loading facility to standard gauge like the Ravenglass and Eskdale, 

Perhaps more likely to use extra transporters carrying mineral wagons, unless there was a need to work internal quarry wagons through to Waterhouses?

[DavidBird]

AnyRail seems to have been more cooperative, so here is a first attempt at a track plan with (mostly) setrack.

 

 

The "dotted" tracks are hidden under the hillside, the fully shaded straight at the back is a cassette type fiddle yard track, accessed through a hatch in the back of the plywood box.  I have also included a bit of 18" gauge mine track.

[Nearholmer]

IMO, it’s going to be challenging to make that look convincingly L&M, because a characteristic of that railway was how generously it was aligned, reflected in, by British <3ft gauge standards, long and wide rolling stock. Nothing is impossible, but if you superimpose an L &M coach to scale on that, you might see what I mean.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, DavidBird said:

I have also included a bit of 18" gauge mine track.

Operational or static? Would be interesting to see a third gauge making an appearance.

 

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

IMO, it’s going to be challenging to make that look convincingly L&M, because a characteristic of that railway was how generously it was aligned, reflected in, by British <3ft gauge standards, long and wide rolling stock. Nothing is impossible, but if you superimpose an L &M coach to scale on that, you might see what I mean.

Just to add to this point, what size are the squares on the plan? If they are foot squares and it’s 9 inch set track I somehow don’t think you will get away with transporters on 9 inch radius, just because of the compromises in how they need to be modelled and resulting long fixed wheelbase - I’m using 18 inch radius for my transporters and in my case it is only one point anyway, the rest of the plan consisting mainly of straight track.

[DavidBird]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

IMO, it’s going to be challenging to make that look convincingly L&M, because a characteristic of that railway was how generously it was aligned, reflected in, by British <3ft gauge standards, long and wide rolling stock. Nothing is impossible, but if you superimpose an L &M coach to scale on that, you might see what I mean.

 

Indeed it will be.  I've found this photo here staffspasttrack.org.uk which shows the civil engineering side, with the straight route with the fresh earthworks showing how substantial they are.  No Spooner-ish clinging to the sides of mountains...

In fact, I'm thinking of moving away from strictly L&MV to a more wider Derbyshire Dales setting, a bit like this here, with a steep bleak hillside leading up to a plateau-ish area

 

Cales Dale and Lathkill Dale, picture from https://www.ramblers.org.uk/go-walking/group-walks/youlgreave-cales-dale-lathkill-dale

 

11 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Operational or static? Would be interesting to see a third gauge making an appearance.

 

Just to add to this point, what size are the squares on the plan? If they are foot squares and it’s 9 inch set track I somehow don’t think you will get away with transporters on 9 inch radius, just because of the compromises in how they need to be modelled and resulting long fixed wheelbase - I’m using 18 inch radius for my transporters and in my case it is only one point anyway, the rest of the plan consisting mainly of straight track.

 

Static, but yes I thought it would be interesting to have 3 gauges on the same layout.

 

The squares are 1ft, with 9inch setrack.  There is a small amount of wriggleroom with the radius if I use streamline to transition into the curves and the transporters would only ever be hauled apart from shunting over the straight route from the loop to the siding.  I will still go ahead with using them, if they don't work, a single transporter will be confined to static display on the siding.  But if I'm successful with the layout as a whole, a version 2, with at least 12" radius curves may be in order.

 

As I said at the start, I'm looking for an excuse to run 009 locos and stock, that's different from a north Wales slate quarry line, and the connection with the Peak District meant the L&MV was an obvious choice.  If I can include the unique features of the L&MV, such as the transporter wagons, so much the better.