End loading dock width?

[ejstubbs]

How wide would a typical end loading dock in a goods yard have to have been?  I'm assuming that the vehicles which were loaded and unloaded couldn't have been significantly wider than the wagon carrying them - and in fact less wide, in the case of a closed wagon like a CCT.  But would it have been required to allow a certain amount of space on the dock at either side over and above that e.g. for people involved in the loading and unloading to have safe access alongside the vehicle?

 

I suppose that if the vehicle was being driven on or off the wagon then no such intervention would have been required, but if for some reason it wasn't able to move under its own power and it was having to be manhandled then there would seem to be a need for a bit of heaving room.

[The Johnster]

Normal goods platform clearances for the most part, I suspect.  A goods yard, even a small one, would have bridging plates stashed away somewhere to assist with loading and unloading from the ends and sides of flat or low-sided wagons, and CCTs/GUVs and CARFLATS/CARTICS had end flap doors which dropped down supported by the buffer tops (cut flat to enable this is in some cases) to allow unloading from the ends.  These were designed to meet with a very small gap between vehicles so that cars, trailers, or similar loads could simply be driven or pushed manually along the train for loading/unloading.  Anything with wheels could be easily manhandled if needed, or winched with capstans.

[Sitham Yard]

8 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

How wide would a typical end loading dock in a goods yard have to have been?  I'm assuming that the vehicles which were loaded and unloaded couldn't have been significantly wider than the wagon carrying them - and in fact less wide, in the case of a closed wagon like a CCT.  But would it have been required to allow a certain amount of space on the dock at either side over and above that e.g. for people involved in the loading and unloading to have safe access alongside the vehicle?

 

I suppose that if the vehicle was being driven on or off the wagon then no such intervention would have been required, but if for some reason it wasn't able to move under its own power and it was having to be manhandled then there would seem to be a need for a bit of heaving room.

 

If its any help Melton Mowbray 2016 my photo.

Andrew

[Miss Prism]

I was wondering where I left that old pair of wagon buffers...

[ejstubbs]

@Sitham Yard Thank you for that: a much better photo than I'd been able to find trawling through my books and t'Internet.  So, on the basis that the buffers are positioned vertically above the rails, by viewing the photo at its maximum size and applying a ruler to it, the face of the dock seems to be roughly 9½ft wide, offset slightly due to the presence of the platform ramp on the right.  That gives me something concrete* to work around for the one on my layout.

 

* See what I did there?

[DCB]

The @Sitham Yard post looks quite modern.   Most end loading docks would have  pre dated motor vehicles being essentially built  with the stations and very popular in the earliest  days when toffs took their own carriages  on "Carriage Trucks" when they travelled by train. 

[ejstubbs]

1 hour ago, DCB said:

The @Sitham Yard post looks quite modern.   Most end loading docks would have  pre dated motor vehicles being essentially built  with the stations and very popular in the earliest  days when toffs took their own carriages  on "Carriage Trucks" when they travelled by train. 

 

Are you suggesting that an older one might have been narrower, or wider - or just of a different construction?  Sorry, not intending to challenge what you say, just to understand what it might mean on my between-the-wars era layout.

 

I'm also thinking that my estimation of the buffer locations was wrong - they should be ~1ft further apart than the rail gauge, which I think makes the width of the dock face more like 12-13ft.

Edited November 22, 2023 by ejstubbs

[Michael Hodgson]

I don't think an older one would have had those crash barriers to stop you driving off the loading dock onto the platform end ramp or track.

I doubt it would have had red asterisks painted on the buffer heads either.

[Sitham Yard]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I don't think an older one would have had those crash barriers to stop you driving off the loading dock onto the platform end ramp or track.

I doubt it would have had red asterisks painted on the buffer heads either.

As I said it is a 2016 view. I think that the basic end loading arrangement is quite old although, being concrete, not dating back to the opening of the station. Modifications/additions have taken place over the years, those barriers look new.

Andrew  

[Sabato]

I think the buffers are not a normal feature of end loading docks. Most of the time there is a baulk of timber across the end of the dock, much like many buffer stops. and similarly sometimes lengths of rail bolted to the dock. I call to mind a photo the one at Buckingham  (LNWR) and a drawing in Jack Nelson's book on LNWR infrastructure published by Peco decades ago. 

[Nick Holliday]

This might be of interest, http://www.swithland-signal-works.co.uk/plans/16_Carriage_Landing_No1.jpg A genuine Victorian example.

[eastglosmog]

The loading dock at Fairford was 7ft 1 or 2" wide.  Spacing of center of track to adjoining running line was 17ft (scaled from 1958 photo in Great Western Branch Line Terminii).  Fairford may have been a bit narrow, that being the East Gloucstershire way.

[JeremyC]

15 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

@Sitham Yard Thank you for that: a much better photo than I'd been able to find trawling through my books and t'Internet.  So, on the basis that the buffers are positioned vertically above the rails, by viewing the photo at its maximum size and applying a ruler to it, the face of the dock seems to be roughly 9½ft wide, offset slightly due to the presence of the platform ramp on the right.  That gives me something concrete* to work around for the one on my layout.

 

* See what I did there?

Just to point out the buffers won't be vertically above the rails as buffer centres are about 5' 8" .

[TheQ]

The docks on the line I'm modelling had standard clearances as per platforms either side. Therefore that sets the end width of the dock.

Commonly used for side loading horses into their boxes.

Whereas carriages were end loaded.

Unfortunately I can't find any photos of the buffer arrangements. The line had closed by the time I knew the stations and the buffers had gone.

Edited November 23, 2023 by TheQ

[ejstubbs]

12 hours ago, Sabato said:

I think the buffers are not a normal feature of end loading docks.

 

I was just using the distance between them as a convenient basis for measuring up the other dimensions from the photo.

 

2 hours ago, JeremyC said:

Just to point out the buffers won't be vertically above the rails as buffer centres are about 5' 8" .

 

Yes,  I realised my mistake yesterday - see my post.

3 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

This might be of interest, http://www.swithland-signal-works.co.uk/plans/16_Carriage_Landing_No1.jpg A genuine Victorian example.

 

Very useful, thanks.

[Dan Randall]

I’ve not seen an end loading dock with those hinged plates to bridge the gap between the dock and the wagons before - that’s an interesting variation.

 

 

Regards

 

Dan

Edited November 23, 2023 by Dan Randall

[Michael Hodgson]

51 minutes ago, Dan Randall said:

I’ve not seen an end loading dock with those hinged plates to bridge the gap between the dock and the wagons before - that’s an interesting variation.

 

 

Regards

 

Dan

It would be a lot easier than struggling with a loose sheet of steel plate that you had to drag into place, not to mention the job of recovering it if you let it fall off the edge!  But loose plates would be have to be wider in order to cope with variation in axle lengths of the different vehicles that needed to be loaded (unless they were free to be slid along a longer hinge pin).  And no doubt it meant fun and games loading a 3-wheeler.