Models based on the central Wales line

[Richard_A]

Can anyone help on articles which are about models based on the central Wales line please? 

[PMP]

There’s very few that I can recall that have been made if you’re referring to layouts made based on the central Wales. In one of the Model Rail layout plan books Paul Lunn and I worked up one based on Builth Wells. There’s also an 2FS layout based I believe on Llanidloes, and Iain Rice drew up a very good version of Swansea Victoria. 

[Richard_A]

Thanks, I've ordered the iain rice book, designs for urban layouts, which I think is the correct book. 

 

The line looks like it should be a good base for a layout, big engines on short passenger trains, freight etc. 

[D9020 Nimbus]

There was a layout plan, based I think on Llanidloes, which featured in Traction a little while ago. You might be able to find it among the back issues on World of Railways +.

[The Johnster]

The Central Wales line, marketed in modern times as the 'Heart of Wales' line, is the LNWR route from Craven Arms & Stokesay to Swansea Victoria; it does not pass through Llanidloes, which was situated on the Mid Wales line, which was part of the Cambrian Railways and ran from Moat Lane Jc to Brecon.  They crossed at Builth Road, some miles north of Builth Wells, though the only connection between them was a through siding.  Confusion may be being made between Llanidloes and Llandeilo, which is on the Central Wales but had a GW branch to Carmarthen.

 

Central Wales, Mid Wales, Llandeilo, Llanidloes, not surprising the waters get a bid muddied sometimes...

[D9020 Nimbus]

Yes, it must have been Llandeilo that was featured in Traction. Those names can be confusing — and the GWR used to have its own spellings for many Welsh place names anyway.

[The Johnster]

Well, yes, but it generally did  fairly well with what I am assured is the Language Of Heaven (not that I'm ever likely to find out), especially when you consider that not only were they Y Diwl Saes, but rooted in Bristol at that, a place which has issues with the Welsh going back hundreds of years to the days of piracy and wrecking and continues to the present in the guise of football 'ooglnzm'.  They made mistakes that were, to be fair, chwarae teg nawr, common enough among English speaking Welsh people at the time, like Laneley, or left an f out of Blauenu Ffestiniog.  Perhaps excusable in a time when Welsh was very unfashionable and considered backward, the language of uneducated peasants, not suitable for use in the modern world or polite company.  Google 'Welsh Not'.

 

They managed the likes of Ysbyty Ystwyth, Machynlleth, or Trawsfynydd, with no problems and sailed through both Llanidloes and Llandeilo.  Llanidloes was inherited from the Cambrian, despite it's Latin nomclemature a very Welsh railway that had no problem with Glydyfydrwy, who had inherited it in turn form an even Welsher railway, one which when built was completely isolated from the rest of the network.  The Festiniog (period spelling), about as Welsh as it gets and situated in a very Welsh-speaking area, also fell foul (ffel ffoul?) of the double-lettered Welsh ff dipthong, pronounced correctly as spelt the railway would have been the 'Vestiniog', perhaps accompanied by the 'Pantiniog'.  Pant is a perfectly cromulent Welsh word meaning slope or hillside, hence not uncommon in place names.

 

The LNWR didn't do all that badly either, it managed Llanrwst and Dolwyddelan for example, but famously gibbed at the admittedly lengthy but perfectly simple Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerechwyntrybwllllantisiliogogogoch (even in Welsh four consecutive Ls, actually two LL dipthongs, are unusual), though one doubts that a railway that considered itself managed by educated gentlemen would hae had trouble with antidisestablishmentarianism, both the word and the meaning....

[Northmoor]

There's this one, which I think is superb:

 

[Cwmtwrch]

15 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Llanidloes was inherited from the Cambrian, despite it's Latin nomclemature a very Welsh railway that had no problem with Glydyfydrwy,

Glyndyfrdwy was a GWR station between Llangollen and Corwen and never part of the Cambrian Railways 🙂.

 

 

[PMP]

On 24/11/2023 at 15:13, rka said:

Thanks, I've ordered the iain rice book, designs for urban layouts, which I think is the correct book. 

 

The line looks like it should be a good base for a layout, big engines on short passenger trains, freight etc. 

The line certainly covers that aspect, and if you're working in either OO (in particular), or N you can get a good head start with plenty of appropriate RTR locomotives and rolling stock.

With the scenery and availability of appropriate stock it's always surprised me there's an absolute paucity of good welsh layouts particularly covering the central core of the country, and the far mid west.

[Richard_A]

18 minutes ago, PMP said:

The line certainly covers that aspect, and if you're working in either OO (in particular), or N you can get a good head start with plenty of appropriate RTR locomotives and rolling stock.

With the scenery and availability of appropriate stock it's always surprised me there's an absolute paucity of good welsh layouts particularly covering the central core of the country, and the far mid west.

It surprises me also, my interest is more the urbanised Swansea end (I live here and hailing from Huddersfield, I find the midland and lnwr elements appealing) but the line offers a lot of potential, obviously before the 1970's.

 

I have been buying various kits both unbuilt and built but needing work as a way of obtaining stock but not breaking the bank. 

[The Johnster]

The Cambrian Coast line and the GW Bala-Dolgellau-Barmouth routes are particularly well catered for by RTR provision, and one could probably stock any layout based on them from the early 1950s onwards from it.  And it is very familiar to enthusiasts.  And there is no disputing that the scenery is world-class; it often surprises me that there are so few layouts basing themselves in the  area.  There are some, of course, Wombatofludham's Mawddach Estuary empire and the exhibition Pwllheli modern image layout come to mind, but, surely, this type of layout should be so hackneyed as to be a cliche; Crosville bus on a bridge...

 

My own interest is in the mining valleys of the South, which is a type of layout gaining traction slowly.  I believe we have Mainline to thank for this, with their 57xx and 56xx making loco provision for such a layout so much easier, followed by Hornby some time later with their 42xx.  Interest in a particular genre of layouts is often led by RTR production; the classic example is the proliferation in the last 25 years or so of SR third- rail layouts.

 

 

6 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Glyndyfrdwy was a GWR station between Llangollen and Corwen and never part of the Cambrian Railways 🙂.

 

 

 

Yes, correct, my bad.  The Cwmtwrchs, Upper and Lower, are of course another good example of the part-success of Welsh station names, Uchaf and Isaf being spurned in favour of Saesneg.  🤔

[D9020 Nimbus]

5 hours ago, PMP said:

The line certainly covers that aspect, and if you're working in either OO (in particular), or N you can get a good head start with plenty of appropriate RTR locomotives and rolling stock.

With the scenery and availability of appropriate stock it's always surprised me there's an absolute paucity of good welsh layouts particularly covering the central core of the country, and the far mid west.

The main thing missing in N is probably the Fowler 2-6-4T, and for earlier periods the ex-LNWR types to current standards (some were done by Union Mills).

[PMP]

2 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The main thing missing in N is probably the Fowler 2-6-4T, and for earlier periods the ex-LNWR types to current standards (some were done by Union Mills).

I agree, it’s quite well covered for BR steam eras considering how few items are available compared to the OO market!

[NHY 581]

Whilst veering off topic slightly, as a Welshman, I've always been slightly amused that I look literally anywhere, other than Wales for railway modelling inspiration. 

 

I thus have no real interest in modelling the railways of my home country, despite the plethora of possibilities and wonderful scenery not 40 minutes from my city based front door. A possible exception to this are some of the collieries, especially the Mountain Ash system which causes much interest. 

 

That said, there are one or two forthcoming locos that might change this outlook in a year or so. Never say never. 

 

Rob

 

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

The Cambrian Coast line and the GW Bala-Dolgellau-Barmouth routes are particularly well catered for by RTR provision, and one could probably stock any layout based on them from the early 1950s onwards from it.  And it is very familiar to enthusiasts.  And there is no disputing that the scenery is world-class; it often surprises me that there are so few layouts basing themselves in the  area.  There are some, of course, Wombatofludham's Mawddach Estuary empire and the exhibition Pwllheli modern image layout come to mind, but, surely, this type of layout should be so hackneyed as to be a cliche; Crosville bus on a bridge...

 

My own interest is in the mining valleys of the South, which is a type of layout gaining traction slowly.  I believe we have Mainline to thank for this, with their 57xx and 56xx making loco provision for such a layout so much easier, followed by Hornby some time later with their 42xx.  Interest in a particular genre of layouts is often led by RTR production; the classic example is the proliferation in the last 25 years or so of SR third- rail layouts.

I have an impression there have been quite a few Cambrian-based layouts both on the exhibition circuit and in magazines over the years, but probably a twentieth of those based in Devon and Cornwall.  Those based anywhere in South Wales are probably 1% of the latter. 

 

This might be a function of where people holidayed in the 1950s and 60s.  Possibly a sweeping generalisation, but I suspect families from the Midlands and North West, went to the Northern half of Cardigan Bay or the North Wales Coast.  From the South of England, they went to Devon and Cornwall.  These have all been well-documented and once attractive layouts of these areas appeared (and seemed achievable to build), others built something similar.  There aren't too many Valleys-based layouts, because not enough people watched trains there in their spare time.  There is definitely a correlation between the number of layouts based in an area and the amount of published photographs of that area.

 

As someone brought up in Pembrokeshire, I notice a lack of models based on that area; compared to Cornwall this is a shame as the Pembs branches generally provided more interesting operation than the Cornish ones.  Good luck to the OP, there is some good source material out there on the CWL but it's not plentiful like other areas and routes.

[The Johnster]

The Central Wales in the early 60s would make a good exhibition model as a roundy or fy-fy single track passing station, any number to choose from.  2-6-4Ts from Fowler to BR standard, Black 5s, 8Fs Jubilees, BR 5MTs in lined black or lined green, 4-coach trains (coal trains are longer), Stanier, Hawksworth, or Mk1 stock.  In N you could include a good bit of the climb out of Llanwrtyd Wells towards Sugar Loaf and still be small enough for most exhibition managers to find space for.  Or Knucklas Viaduct.  Builth Road would be doable as well.

[Pmorgancym]

Never understood why the CWL isn't more popular with modellers. The potential for scenery, mix of GW and LM stock, and big locos on small trains 5mts and Jubilees on 3-4 coach trains, I've seen a pic of an 8F hauling a single coach school service.  

[Richard_A]

1 hour ago, Pmorgancym said:

Never understood why the CWL isn't more popular with modellers. The potential for scenery, mix of GW and LM stock, and big locos on small trains 5mts and Jubilees on 3-4 coach trains, I've seen a pic of an 8F hauling a single coach school service.  

I quite agree, I'm more interested in the Swansea end, but the whole line is very model able. 

[Pmorgancym]

1 hour ago, rka said:

I quite agree, I'm more interested in the Swansea end, but the whole line is very model able. 

Once I get the space I'm circling a pastiche of Pantyfynnon....

[Richard_A]

4 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

Once I get the space I'm circling a pastiche of Pantyfynnon....

That should be a good model. 

[Pmorgancym]

28 minutes ago, rka said:

That should be a good model. 

From.anyone who's a vaguely competent modeller yes :)  

[wagonman]

On 24/11/2023 at 13:53, rka said:

Can anyone help on articles which are about models based on the central Wales line please? 

 

Railway Modelling 101 suggests you model the prototype rather than models of it! Alternatively make it up – my long term project* is to model a mineral railway that could have run north from Llandovery, but unaccountably never did.

 

* long term project means unlikely to be anywhere near complete before I snuff it.

[The Johnster]

I agree you shouldn't model models, or preserved items, but articles about models can provide a lot of information for those that want to model the same prototype.  Can't think of any other part of the LNWR that featured main line single track running to the extent that the CW did...

[Richard_A]

I wasn't going to copy anything, I was hoping to find some more info on the line tbh.