Modified Peco 3way insulfrog (or is it?) turnout - how to wire?

[ITG]

Hi,

A little while back, I bought a batch of (allegedly)as new code 100 Peco turnouts, and now the time has come to lay and wire them. One seems to be a modified insulfrog 3-way turnout. I say modified as there are 4 frog-wires hanging below, as though it was a live frog version. Looking at the underside photo below,  as appears visually, there is continuity between A & B, but not between C & D.

There seems to be plenty of online guidance for live frog versions, but not for a modified insulfrog. I’m assuming that in effect, these modifications if wired correctly, will give similar characteristics with frog power switching (I’m using MTB turnout motors so such switching is inbuilt.)

As this is the first 3-way turnout I’ve used, I’d be grateful if someone could advise, preferably with a diagram as to which wire need to go where.

thanks

Ian

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by ITG
Added info

[Grovenor]

Doesn't look like Insulfrog to me, the frogs need to be switched or you will have very long gaps.

A and B will be one frog and you need to check there is continuity between the centre frog rails and A, B.

C and D will be the other frog.

Switch C and D by the end tie bar and switch A and B by the inner tie bar.

Looking at the upper photo, when set fot the top track both frogs need to be switched to the black wire, when set for the bottom track both frogs should be switched to the red wire.

Then when set fopr the centre road A and B will be switched to red and C and D to black.

[ITG]

Thanks Grovenor. I edited the title after I’d posted, as I wasn’t convinced it was insulfrog.

There is continuity between A, B and the appropriate frog.

What confuses me is why A&B are still connected, but C&D aren’t. More so as you’re advising each pair to be joined (if I interpret correctly) to the frog switch. Ie A+B and C+D respectively. 
Hopefully all will become clearer when I connect up and start switching.

Ian

[2E Sub Shed]

This looks similar to what I have done to one of these Insulfrog points  to overcome dependency on using the switch blade to rail contact to supply power. (looked ok on voltmeter, however was high enough resistance to stall loco's.  In my case fitted after the point was laid).

 

As Grovenor states, you will need to link A to B & C to D, switching as required, either by switches linked to each point motor or frog juicers if DCC..

 

Fit insulating fishplates to all the rails at the 3-Way end except the rails you have the red and black wires attached to, and these will be fed from the toe of the point. You need to fit these to prevent a short as you will not be using the point blades for power routing.

 

You will need to carry power past the point  either just wiring for DCC or if you are using DC via isolating section switches if this is more than a one-engine in steam layout.

Edited November 27, 2023 by 2E Sub Shed

[ISW]

18 hours ago, ITG said:

As this is the first 3-way turnout I’ve used, I’d be grateful if someone could advise, preferably with a diagram as to which wire need to go where.

Ian,

 

Yes, I also had 'fun' with my first (and second) 3-way turnouts! Here's photos of the top and bottom of my wired 3-way turnouts.

Top:

 

Bottom:

 

Red and Black provide power to the turnout rails (back to black ...). The Green wire goes to the microswitch operated by the servo on the 'outside' point motor (LH one in the photo above). The Orange wire goes to the servo on the 'inside' point motor (RH one in the photo above).

 

The turnout was not 'modified' in any way, other than to cut away some 'webbing' from the underside to provide access to solder on the power wires.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ian

 

[RobinofLoxley]

One thing I dont understand about this is that, if you showed me one of those turnouts and asked if it was insulfrog, I would have said no, because there is no insulation gap between any of the v -shaped frog rails.

Edited November 28, 2023 by RobinofLoxley

[Brian]

43 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

One thing I dont understand about this is that, if you showed me one of those turnouts and asked if it was insulfrog, I would have said no, because there is no insulation gap between any of the v -shaped frog rails.

The two images posted by the OP show a Peco Electrofrog 3 way point. 😀

[ITG]

Apologies if I misled you. The reason I edited the title with “or is it?” Was because I wasn’t certain. I was confused by the small black plastic separators. That said, I think I bought it advertised as insulfrog, but the frog wires - albeit seemingly cut into two - led me more to thinking electrofrog. It will probably be a week or two before I get round to that part of the layout, so watch this space.

Thanks all.

Ian