Hornby Class 47 to Class 57 conversion

[Hacksworth_Sidings]

Good evening RMWebbers,

 

So I was recently discussing modelling ideas with a friend, namely something more modern than what I generally model. With the Welsh Marches being my local line I often see the MK4 sets run by Transport for Wales (MK4 DVT + carriages, with the motive power supplied by a class 67).

 

 

 

(Above photos are both my own, taken at Shrewsbury)

 

A friend bought up a model for a game he was developing for, the model being an Irish DVT, which led us down a rabbithole of discussing the Driving Van Trailers.

 

Eventually we started talking about the Arriva Trains Wales MK3 sets (MK3 DVT + carriages, motive power, again, supplied by a 67), and I bought up how I'd like to model something like that, or the aforementioned TFW MK4 sets, my plan for the latter being an old Hornby IC225 set (the MK4 stock) and a Lima 67.

 

After doing more research into ATW's premier services, I then bought up how ATW would run class 57s leased from Virgin trains on some of their MK3 sets, and that got me digging into the class 57s, finding out something I didn't know, that the 57s were remanufactured from the older 47s.

 

I have an old Hornby class 47 (47406 "Rail Riders") I acquired as a non runner from a job lot I was sorting out for the librarian at my college (amongst other items), and haven't really done anything with it. 

 

 

However, having found out that ATW ran 57s on MK3 sets, I'm tempted to try and convert my 47 into a 57, repainted into ATW colours. Possibly even grab some old Hornby or Lima MK3s to repaint into matching colours and have a full rake going.

 

 

(This photo is not one of my own, taken from Google)

 

My question is one of how I'd do such a conversion (47 to 57), or if one is even needed at all, I don't generally model more modern prototypes but as this is something from my local network I'm rather tempted by this, so any info from someone who knows more about diesels than I would be greatly appreciated.

 

Also, if possible, could a MK4 DVT be converted to a MK3? Or do the different carriage profiles mean such would be impossible without use of a specialised bodykit? Not as important though, as I'm mainly after guidance for converting the 47.

[Richard_A]

Shawplan, do a class 57 conversion kit. 

[Hacksworth_Sidings]

Done more reading into it, ATW used class 57/3s, that being the specific type I’d need to model, are there any major cosmetic differences between the different types of 57s? Or are all differences purely mechanical?

 

Edit1: Also, it seems I was wrong, ATW ran them on MK2 sets, not MK3s, initially in Top & Tail formation, but eventually loco only.

 

Edit2: I’ve also found that ATW transfers aren’t something easily available, anyone know where I’d be able to get some?

Edited December 13, 2023 by Hacksworth_Sidings

[Mainlinefreighter58]

I converted a class 47 into a 57 with the above kit, you need to decide on which one you want to do as the kit only seems to cover the early 57/0s with the 47 cab ends and not the smoothed ones or the thunderbird ones as above 

[Richard_A]

Shawplan do have a class 57/6 kit, or certainly produced one at some point. 

[Mainlinefreighter58]

https://www.shawplan.com/fittings.htm

[Hacksworth_Sidings]

1 hour ago, Mainlinefreighter58 said:

I converted a class 47 into a 57 with the above kit, you need to decide on which one you want to do as the kit only seems to cover the early 57/0s with the 47 cab ends and not the smoothed ones or the thunderbird ones as above 

No 57/3 kit? Darn, the exact one I need.

 

Would I be able to modify a 57/0 or 57/6 kit to a 57/3? What notifications would I have to do for such if that is possible?

 

1 hour ago, rka said:

Shawplan do have a class 57/6 kit, or certainly produced one at some point. 

 

Yes, they do produce a 57/6 kit.

 

[Richard_A]

1 hour ago, Hacksworth_Sidings said:

No 57/3 kit? Darn, the exact one I need.

 

Would I be able to modify a 57/0 or 57/6 kit to a 57/3? What notifications would I have to do for such if that is possible?

 

 

Yes, they do produce a 57/6 kit.

 

Have a look at the Bachmann spares website, they might have some bits you can use. 

[Richard_A]

14 hours ago, Hacksworth_Sidings said:

Would I be able to modify a 57/0 or 57/6 kit to a 57/3? What notifications would I have to do for such if that is possible?

 

 

Yes, they do produce a 57/6 kit.

 

I don't think there is any difference between the 57/3 and 57/6, but if your chosen locomotives have the Dellner couplings you'll need to source some. 

[Hacksworth_Sidings]

Can’t see any on 57314, just standard chain links, I’ll look into a 57/6 conversion kit then.

 

Are there any parts I’d be able to use for the equipment on the front end? Unsure what all that was used for (again, not used to modelling diesels and modern prototypes), but it’s something I’d have to model.

 

[Richard_A]

52 minutes ago, Hacksworth_Sidings said:

Can’t see any on 57314, just standard chain links, I’ll look into a 57/6 conversion kit then.

 

Are there any parts I’d be able to use for the equipment on the front end? Unsure what all that was used for (again, not used to modelling diesels and modern prototypes), but it’s something I’d have to model.

 

The Dellner (I think I have the name right) coupling is the thing sticking out of the cab front. 

 

I'm not sure if these can be bought separately. 

[Mike_Walker]

The Dellner couplers were found on the 57/3 only and were retractable, folding up into the recess on the cab front when not in use.  They were specified by Virgin who used them a Thunderbirds to rescue disabled Pendolinos or Voyagers or to pilot the former over non-electrified lines.

 

The original 57/0 conversions for Freightliner were pretty much similar to 47s in appearance apart from revisions to the exhaust, radiators and roof hatches to suit the EMD power unit.  Both the 57/3 and 57/6 have remade flush cab fronts incorporating modern (for the time) headlights, the difference between them is that the 57/3 has the large cutout for the coupler whereas the 57/6 is smooth.

 

[Hacksworth_Sidings]

1 hour ago, rka said:

The Dellner (I think I have the name right) coupling is the thing sticking out of the cab front. 

 

I'm not sure if these can be bought separately. 

Ah, yep, took me a sec to notice them, would love to model that for my 57/3, adds a bit more interest to the front end.

 

25 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

The Dellner couplers were found on the 57/3 only and were retractable, folding up into the recess on the cab front when not in use.  They were specified by Virgin who used them a Thunderbirds to rescue disabled Pendolinos or Voyagers or to pilot the former over non-electrified lines.

 

The original 57/0 conversions for Freightliner were pretty much similar to 47s in appearance apart from revisions to the exhaust, radiators and roof hatches to suit the EMD power unit.  Both the 57/3 and 57/6 have remade flush cab fronts incorporating modern (for the time) headlights, the difference between them is that the 57/3 has the large cutout for the coupler whereas the 57/6 is smooth.

 

So would I need to remodel the cab for the 47 if I’m doing a 57/3? I can get better photos of the Hornby model I’m converting if need be, to give a better idea of what I’m working with in terms of the modifications I’d need to do, already know the roof needs a good chunk of stuff doing to it.

[Mike_Walker]

Yes you would.

 

Here's the original conversion showing the basically unaltered 47 front.  Just to be awkward the other end had the former headcode box removed and plated over but with the same arrangement of lights etc.

 

Compare with the revised front applied to the 57/6 and 57/3 originally.  The Dellner couplers on the latter were retro-fitted.

 

A closer view of the Dellner coupler in the stowed position.  When not being used these were often covered over with a yellow bag.

[Hacksworth_Sidings]

So… Modify the headlamp positions and add the Dellner couplers on the ends? Got it.

 

Anywhere I’d be able to get 4mm scale Dellners? Or would I have to build my own? I do have an FDM 3D printer so that might be an option…

[Mike_Walker]

West Hill Wagon Works do some magnetic ones designed for Bachmann Voyagers or Hornby IETs which you might be able to modify to ft into the stowed position rather than making your own.

[Hacksworth_Sidings]

A fiver for two… Not bad, I’ll look into getting those for the conversion, got other projects on the workbench right now so that’ll likely come later on, but I’ll absolutely keep that in mind.

 

Since the couplers actually work, would I not have to do anything to make sure they don’t work? As I’ll be using the traditional tension lock couplers the 47 model uses.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Hacksworth_Sidings

[Mainlinefreighter58]

Heres some images of a Lima it started as 47006 and ended up as 57006 in advenza, i uses shawplans roof kit for it and a Bachmann underframe tanks to replace the one size does not fit all Lima variant 

[eatus-maximus]

On 12/12/2023 at 22:48, Hacksworth_Sidings said:

....Also, if possible, could a MK4 DVT be converted to a MK3? Or do the different carriage profiles mean such would be impossible without use of a specialised bodykit? Not as important though, as I'm mainly after guidance for converting the 47.

 

The Mk3 and Mk4 DVTs are very different. Not much in common at all.

 

On 13/12/2023 at 14:22, Hacksworth_Sidings said:

Done more reading into it, ATW used class 57/3s, that being the specific type I’d need to model, are there any major cosmetic differences between the different types of 57s? Or are all differences purely mechanical?

 

Edit1: Also, it seems I was wrong, ATW ran them on MK2 sets, not MK3s, initially in Top & Tail formation, but eventually loco only.

 

Edit2: I’ve also found that ATW transfers aren’t something easily available, anyone know where I’d be able to get some?

 

ATW transfers are available from Precision Labels.

 

4 hours ago, Hacksworth_Sidings said:

Can’t see any on 57314, just standard chain links, I’ll look into a 57/6 conversion kit then.

 

Are there any parts I’d be able to use for the equipment on the front end? Unsure what all that was used for (again, not used to modelling diesels and modern prototypes), but it’s something I’d have to model....

 

I saw some 3D printed couplers the other day, can I think of where I saw them... no... but they are out there.

 

When the 57/3 locos were first converted, they did not have Dellner couplers. These were a later addition. At various points some have had the couplers removed, but with the mounting point still in place.

[Hacksworth_Sidings]

1 hour ago, eatus-maximus said:

The Mk3 and Mk4 DVTs are very different. Not much in common at all.

 

Don't really know why I asked that, research showed that the 57s never ran with DVTs, that was only ever the 67s, though at some point I'd love to get a Lima 67 to paint in ATW colours, to run with an ATW MK3 set...

[eatus-maximus]

On 15/12/2023 at 14:46, eatus-maximus said:

 

I saw some 3D printed couplers the other day, can I think of where I saw them... no... but they are out there.

 

Turns out it was Precision Labels...

 

DELLNER COUPLINGS CLASS 57, 47 & 37