HST: Starting/ single PC operation

[Derekstuart]

Hello all...

 

I wonder if anyone qualified on HSTs- Driver, Engineer, expert enthusiast... could please answer the following. It is from a quite pointless thread on a video sharing channel, but I must admit to being curious now. NB I am really asking about BR days, when the HSTs ruled the ECML and were shiny blue, yellow and off-white and made by God himself.

1. When starting a HST set (assume it has already been in service and is shutdown at a terminus). I know you start the rear PC as that triggers it to provide the ETS; is the leading PC started at the same time or is it started seperately on local buttons)

2. Is there a specific reason for running ETS from the rear and if a HST set is reversed at any point are there any consequences of the ETS PC now being at the front?
3. When running a HST set with the rear PC missing (as opposed to shut down DIT) or when running a PC light/ with barrier van, what if anything needs to be done to the PC to enable that; I don't mean disconnecting the pipes and jumpers, I mean anything within the PC? I seem to remember something when I sat in a HST training session 40 years ago about the rear PC servicing some of the ancilliaries on the leading PC via the ETS.
4. As a bonus question for extra points: Why were the PCs only fitted with one MRP and BP whereas within the rake the MK3s had brake pipes both sides?

Thanks in advance any info appreciated.
 

[dmustu]

To answer some of the questions

 

1. If starting the engines on a set that has both power cars shut down, each one has to be started individually. The ETS is manually switched on in the relevant power car, which would be the rear one on departure, assuming no faults with the train or it's ETS!

2. Mainly because if something happens meaning the ETS cannot be supplied by the rear power car, like the engine shutting down, ETS can be switched on from the leading power car without having to stop the train. If the ETS was supplied from the front power car and the engine shuts down, you'd have to stop the train and walk to the rear power car to switch it on.

3. Only thing you would need to do is switch on the ETS, as battery charging for the power cars is done from the ETS. Apart from being restricted in speed, there's no real issue with running without a rear power car.

4. No idea!

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

[Davexoc]

From what I remember you would start the rear PC and then switch on the ETS or ETH as it used to be known. Reason for this at either depot or terminus would be because it would likely have been on the shore supply, so before doing so, you need to see that is disconnected and the access door closed and locked. The HV sparkies at OOC did have to redo the shore supplies occaisionally when a set tried to take the wiring with it to Padd....

Walk down to the other end and you will start that one and have a PC that will now tick-over during station stops, whereas the rear PC will be running in notch 1 to maintain the ETS output. Makes for a quieter working environment some of the time....

[CWJ]

5 hours ago, Derekstuart said:

4. As a bonus question for extra points: Why were the PCs only fitted with one MRP and BP whereas within the rake the MK3s had brake pipes both sides?

 

I was about to be a clever clogs and assert that the brake pipes ARE duplicated on the power cars, but I must have been thinking of the trailers. The camera never lies; no bonus points for me.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[Ken.W]

When starting the engines from the cab both start up together.

There are local start buttons, in the engine room, but it's never normal proceedure for the driver to use them.

 

ETS, normal practice is always to run with this supplied from the rear power car.

Yes it does give a quieter cab environment at times, the engine supplying ETS runs at Notch 2 revs, ldle and Notch 1 both are at the same revs, but...

Battery charge on HST Power Cars is only supplied via the ETS.

This is what allows a train to run when the leading engine's shut down, as ETS from the rear will keep the front's batteries charged, thus keeping the control circuits energised.

It therefore also means you never run without the ETS on, as a driver on a pair of back to back power cars LE from Heaton found out around Selby when they were new.

So, if running with ETS on from the rear and it fails for any reason, you simply reach across the desk and press "ETS ON"

If its on from the front you've to go to the other end to do it, stopping if necessary if you don't have a booked stop soon - and even then it would take considerably longer than the average 2 minute station stop.

This system also allows you to get around one power car having flat batteries when starting up, putting the ETS on will charge the other's  batteries, enabling it to be started.

 

Nothing extra needs to be done to work a single power car, they simply work in multiple by having the jumper cables connected, much like older diesel locos.

The ancillaries the OP heard of the rear pc supplying the front through the ETS would just be the battery charge.

 

As for question 4, any of the designers around on here?

 

Although the OP specified in BR days, there's been no change with regard to any of this.

 

Ken.W

Driver, Gateshead / Newcastle

Passed on HST ~1983 - 2019

[Derekstuart]

Thanks @CWJ and @Ken.W much appreciated and that is what I thought-ish.

I think CWJ DOES deserve some bonus points as at least some power cars had twin sets fitted later- presumably under privatisation era, but let us not go there as time stopped in 1994 for me, thanks.

 

Ken, thanks- can I clarify that if you are moving a single power car then you just disconnect as you would any locomotive and then switch the ETS on, just for battery charging?

What a career you must have had. To be a HST Driver is to railways what Concord Captain is to airlines- and you've seen the HST pretty much from start to end. My Dad was a HST Instructor when they were new (Kings Cross) and I had many good days out at the sharp end. Even now the sound of a Valenta spooling up raises the hairs on my neck.

 

We rarely went North of Doncaster, but on occasions made it to the Tyne; I'll not forget my tour around Gateshead depot nor the (completely un-necessary) 'test trip' with a Brush 4 around the loop (King Edward Bridge and High Level Bridge?)  just because a bored Engineer and Driver wanted to show myself and a couple of other visitors what it looked like- I'm not sure they'd get away with that now. God's Country indeed.

Thanks again both for the info.

Edited January 13 by Derekstuart

[EddieK]

On 12/01/2024 at 17:02, Derekstuart said:

I wonder if anyone qualified on HSTs- Driver, Engineer, expert enthusiast... could please answer the following. It is from a quite pointless thread on a video sharing channel, but I must admit to being curious now. NB I am really asking about BR days, when the HSTs ruled the ECML and were shiny blue, yellow and off-white and made by God himself.

I recall the days of new HSTs on ECML. In August 1978, my late father and I had a Summer holiday in Edinburgh, travelling there and back from Kings Cross on the Flying Scotsman service; this only stopped at Newcastle en route, so we passed through York via the centre roads. When we arrived at Waverley, I was allowed a look in the engine room of the rear power car, 43087 IIRC.

I recall reading that there was a minor slip-up at a ceremony to launch the new HSTs at York Station, with various dignitaries present; upon completion of the speeches, the train had to be started, and the driver pressed the button with nothing happening. apparently he had pressed "Engine Stop" in error.....

For many years, the Eastern Region HQ in York had a picture hanging on the wall with an image from 8th May 1978, the first day when up and down Flying Scotsman services were worked by the new HSTs. It captures the moment when the two trains were passing one another. Let's just say that the picture has found a good home...

By the way, when new, the HSTs were blue. yellow and *grey*; God obviously had a good eye for livery design.
 

 

[Ken.W]

Yes that's right, to move a single power car you'd simply uncouple and put the ETS on.

Even moving sets around on Heaton depot, we'd still have the ETS turned on.

 

Thanks Derek, for your comments on my career.

I did actually, get on HSTs right from the start on the East Coast in 78 as a secondman, as at first at Gateshead we had some turns to Edinburgh with an HST one way, but a steam heated set the other, so a secondman was needed for the boiler - although 2 drivers for HST running most main line drivers then were ex steam drivers who'd then learned the diesels as drivers, so hadn't learned the heating boilers.

 

Then, at Gateshead, we needed to learn the HST as 'passed men' in order to cover the ecs and Heaton depot turns. From being made driver in 86, and on the spare link, l started getting regular main line turns with them, and then from our depot (by then Newcastle) sectorisation in 90 l was fortunately the on Intercity, so enjoyed the last year of full HST ECML operation before we got the 91s. Following privatisation l went through all the ECML franchises, leaving in late '19 as the HSTs were also leaving.

 

These days, you wouldn't even think of showing visitors around the depot, never mind giving them a cab ride 'around the bridges', you were fortunate there, changed times indeed.

[big jim]

One thing we had to do on the (MTU fitted) NMT was trip the tail light MCB out on the powercars if it was shut down, think it was so it didn’t drain the battery as they had their own power supply?

 

we also used to stable it, if it was going out again a short while later, with just a single powercar running (at the rear end) to keep the ETS running,  I can’t remember how we shut the single powercar down, I assume locally, I don’t have the manual for it any more to check