Early Railway Signalling (pre-block, and block)

[Nearholmer]

I have to share this exciting discovery!

 

Maybe it’s well known to S&T historians, and their operating department peers, but it’s the earliest really good descriptions that I’ve come across:

 

https://archive.org/details/applicationelec03langgoog/page/n86/mode/1up

 

Having only just stumbled upon it, I’m only a few chapters in, but what a gold mine!

 

The earliest good one I’d found before this is what is known as  “Rapier on Railway Signals”, which is actually slightly earlier (1874), but doesn’t go into the pre-block protocols in such detail. I can’t find that on-line though; I have an original paper copy.

[SHMD]

WOW!

 

Chapter V

(electronic page 64)

 

Division II

"Block Signalling."

HISTORICAL SKETCH.

 

The reasons for the naming of (electrical) signals, "Minories", the first application of electrical railway signalling...

 

So much!

I wonder if that line is the basis/origin of all those BLT Minories end-to-end layouts?

 

A BIG thanks, to @Nearholmer, for bringing this to RMweb.

 

 

Kev.

[Nearholmer]

The London & Blackwall installation, and that to control the haulage engines on Camden Bank, are pretty well known, and the instruments, certainly those from the Blackwall Line, are on display in the Science Museum.

 

https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co27009/five-needle-train-signalling-instrument-used-on-the-london-and-blackwall-railway-train-signalling-instrument-telegraph

 

I think you will find Minories named on it be of those faces!

 

The Great Eastern Railway Society sells digital files of a set of contemporary descriptions of how the rope-haulage system worked on the line, and how the signalling went on. It was a very weird railway, unlike anything before or since , and when you read the descriptions of the failures that it was prone to it’s no wonder they junked cable haulage, and went over to locos pretty quickly!

[TheSignalEngineer]

IIRC Minories on the London and Blackwall only lasted a very few years before becoming a goods depot. 

 

My recollection of the Freezer 'Minories' was it was based on the layout at Liverpool Street Metropolitan which had a terminating platform facing west, but treating it as a 3-platform terminus rather than a through station.

[Nearholmer]

Yes. The London & Blackwall is now of course largely part of the DLR and Tower Gateway station, and where the Bank line dives down into tunnel, are very close to where the original Minories station and winding house were.

 

http://disused-stations.org.uk/m/minories/index.shtml

 

 

Edited January 15 by Nearholmer

[The Stationmaster]

'Nearholmer', and others,  might find this of oniterest -

 

https://distantwriting.co.uk/railwaysignaltelegaphy.html

 

1877 was quite late on in the development of electric telegraph systems for use on railways.  By then both 'speaking telegraph' and block signalling telegraph systems of various kinds were well established in Britain.   Some of the equipment in use by the 1870s could still be found in use a century later.  

 

For instance I had one signal box on my patch into the late 1970s which still had GWR Sagnoletti block instruments which were basically to a design over 100 years old and were not replaced by a newr design until 1947.  Single needle 'speaking telelgraph' remained in use on the southern end of the  GN mainline into the 1960s (possibly a bit later?) - I know someone who used it as part of his normal working day in a signal box.  And in the past i have worked with people who had used it in Telegraph Offices to send wires (aka telegrams).

[Nearholmer]

I’m already a great fan of “distant writing”, and a bit of a Spagnoletti devotee, having come across him as the first “electrical” person in the orbit of the Metropolitan Railway in 1863 (he acted as S&T engineer for that, and some of his instruments were in use by London Transport into the early 1960s when the ‘outer met’ was upgraded).

 

What I find most interesting in Mr Langdon’s book (doesn’t he write well, BTW; an absolute model of clear explanation of technical material) are the descriptions of pre-block working, telegraph and train order effectively, and the way it lifts the veil a bit on how speaking telegraph was used in early block. Those things get mentioned in accident reports, but you only get an explanation of how it’s all gone horribly wrong, rather than how it should have worked.

 

At the ‘history of electrical engineering’ level, the best feature of the book is how several of The Greats get mentioned in passing as people directly involved in practical development and testing - guys who progressed to become Presidents of The IEE (actually, I think John Hopkinson died in a climbing accident alongside his daughter while still too young, but without question he would have been). [I’m wrong - he was twice President].

 

 

Edited January 16 by Nearholmer

[TheSignalEngineer]

We still had some GWR Spagnoletti Blocks around Birmingham when I worked at Tyseley in the 1960s and beyond.

Aditionally the Spagnoletti Indicator mechanism is still in use at mechanical boxes on Network Rail as well as preserved lines.

 

Not only in signalling was he active in his GWR days. He is credited with designing a communication cord system in the 1860s where passengers could attract the attention of the train staff by turning a handle which rang a bell. It also showed a red indicator on the coach in which it had been activated.

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Single needle 'speaking telelgraph' remained in use on the southern end of the  GN mainline into the 1960s (possibly a bit later?) - I know someone who used it as part of his normal working day in a signal box.

Yes, into the 1970s, though only just - I believe it lasted through the early stages of the Kings Cross 1970s resignalling but had gone before the opening of Power Signal Box (Itself now closed).

 

 

Trains were advised on the S/N telegraph from Peterborough in a highly codified form, which gave signalmen nearer London a good idea how well the crack expresses were running, etc.  This would have been useful at King Cross in deciding whether a train should be replatformed.  However by then, not all signalmen could make intelligent use of it to help with regulating traffic.  I know a former signalman who said it just ticked away but he didn't understand it because he didn't know the morse code - not part of his training.

 

The old hands who understood it preferred it over box-to-box phone messages, since they didn't even have to look at it, they could listen to it while they got on with other duties.

[Michael Hodgson]

Description of single neddele telegraph here:

 

http://www.samhallas.co.uk/railway/single_needle.htm

[The Stationmaster]

1 minute ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Yes, into the 1970s, though only just - I believe it lasted through the early stages of the Kings Cross 1970s resignalling but had gone before the opening of Power Signal Box (Itself now closed).

 

 

Trains were advised on the S/N telegraph from Peterborough in a highly codified form, which gave signalmen nearer London a good idea how well the crack expresses were running, etc.  This would have been useful at King Cross in deciding whether a train should be replatformed.  However by then, not all signalmen could make intelligent use of it to help with regulating traffic.  I know a former signalman who said it just ticked away but he didn't understand it because he didn't know the morse code - not part of his training.

 

The old hands who understood it preferred it over box-to-box phone messages, since they didn't even have to look at it, they could listen to it while they got on with other duties.

And much quicker than the 'phone according to one who used it.    I y understand that train advices were sent from several places, not juts Peterborough and that helped regulation over the do8uble ytack sections.

 

Thanks for confirming it had lasted into the 1970s as I thought it probably had but wasn't certain.

 

BTW I have a brand new (as in straight from stores and never installed in a 'box - although it had probably been reconditioned) GWR Spagnoletti double line block instrument.  Lovely thing.

[The Stationmaster]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Description of single neddele telegraph here:

 

http://www.samhallas.co.uk/railway/single_needle.htm

/ \\\ \/ /\ /\/ \\\ 

[Michael Hodgson]

3 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I y understand that train advices were sent from several places, not juts Peterborough and that helped regulation over the do8uble ytack sections.

 

Yes, there were specific instructions about who reported what classes of train  (sectional appendix I think), and under what circumstances - there's no point in swamping people with messages saying eveything's running on time.

 

Further info here - note that numbers were spelled out rather than sending digits in morse,

https://signalbox.org/branch-lines/the-speaking-telegraph/