kevo Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 hi can any one offer some advice for fitting a decoder to a roundhouse model 40 critter . it said on the box dcc ready and from pics i had seen it should have a circuit board with a 8 pin plug . i have limited know how. but can see only a red and black wires see pic inc, screwed to the block on top and a split frame chassis , ide like to have a go at fitting a decoder my self so any pointers tips etc would be most wellcome . and recomendations on what decoders and a stay alive would fit . thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) Looks very much like a split chassis to me and no obvious evidence of power to directional lighting. Edited January 26 by RAF96 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 But some evidence of something previously fixed to the top of the chassis block.... which would have been the lighting and decoder plug circuit, perhaps removed by a previous owner ? (Perhaps someone who wanted "DC" and didn't trust the electrickery of the circuit board). See this article with picture of chassis https://www.trains.com/mrr/news-reviews/reviews/staff-reviews/roundhouse-trains-emd-model-40-is-an-ho-scale-workhorse/ That article suggests the lights were on wires from the missing printed circuit board. How to DCC-it ? Any reasonable quality decoder, and hard-wire it. If wanting lights, you'll have to fit those yourself. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 Thanks for the replys . yes it is a bit baffel ing to where the circut board has gone every photo i have come across so far shows it with the 8 pin plug . any way i will have a try at hard wire ing a decoder in been watch ing u tube vids on split frames so long as i isolate the motor and take my time i just may be able to sort it ime not really worried about the lights 2 make thigs easyer . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 hours ago, kevo said: Thanks for the replys . yes it is a bit baffel ing to where the circut board has gone every photo i have come across so far shows it with the 8 pin plug . any way i will have a try at hard wire ing a decoder in been watch ing u tube vids on split frames so long as i isolate the motor and take my time i just may be able to sort it ime not really worried about the lights 2 make thigs easyer . It looks like a "doddle" as these things go - the red and black wires on your photo clearly connect the chassis (pickups) to the motor. So, unsolder those wires from their screw tags, if you can, also unsolder the red+black from the motor because that will keep wiring colours consistent. Then its the simple: - decoder red+black to the solder tags on the chassis (pickups) - decoder orange+grey to the motor, ideally all the way to the motor, but if you have to joint onto the existing red+black, use thin heatshrink to slide over the joint when done. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 Thanks Nigel thats really helpful . ime just have ing a look around for a suitable small decode to fit . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fulton Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Just to add, I had two of these, yours has had the circuit board, for DCC and lights removed, due to the weight and using live frogs the running was very good, I had no need for stay alive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 Thanks BE thats handy to know . and mine did run really just on DC as well to .i was very inpressed , but i still think i would like to fit a decoder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 Not very much progress on the decoder fit infact its turned in to a right head ache ,☹️. this is my 1 st time hard wire ing at split frame i have followed as much as i can from whatch ing u tube and advice from here i have isolated the motor from the frames and wired the 4 wires orange and grey to the motor red and black for pick ups but no matter how i try when placed on the track buzz ing and shorting takes place . what i am getting wrong beats me any help please before i bin the flipping thing 😖 i have taken it apart and re tried so many times now i could do with my eyes closed 😀 one silly mistake you can see from the 1 st two pics i wired motor leads for pic ups . simple i thought just re wire the correct way problem solved . BUT FAR FROM IT A RRRRRRR ! SORRY🙄 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Unfortunately, connecting the decoder outputs (orange and grey) to the track power can destroy a decoder. When you did that, did you put the loco onto a full power track ? If so, suspect "destroyed decoder". If you only put it on a "programming track" which is normally off, except for programming bursts, then it should have survived. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 When you isolate the motor from the chassis/frames you don't (normaly) need to isolate the body of the motor, just the electrical connection terminals. Neither of the electrical terminals are normally in contact with the body of the motor. One exception is ringfield motors, as were quite common in older Hornby models, which often have the left hand motor terminal connected to the metal body of the motor. This must be remedied before a decoder is wired in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 Hi thanks for the replys no it was only a few seconds on my test track and no power at all was aplied . so it was quickly taken off . i guess my only option is to take it all apart and try again on one side of the frame only seems to have a plastic backing plate and the other side dus not and the two clamps that surport the worm drime sharfts r plastic as well . i do have limited know how with electronics but have hard wired non split frames with no problems but this has kicked my confidence a bit . its a daft ? to ask but would the motor conections be of fault like the orange and grey wrong way round or dus that not make a differance . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 33 minutes ago, smokebox said: When you isolate the motor from the chassis/frames you don't (normaly) need to isolate the body of the motor, just the electrical connection terminals. Neither of the electrical terminals are normally in contact with the body of the motor. One exception is ringfield motors, as were quite common in older Hornby models, which often have the left hand motor terminal connected to the metal body of the motor. This must be remedied before a decoder is wired in. Agreed, and I doubt anything was needed to be done with this model. Originally it was supplied with a decoder socket, a previous owner took that out and connected the motor wires direct to the pickups, so works on DC. Simply disconnecting those wires and inserting a decoder would be all that was needed. (As I explained earlier). But, I expect the decoder is toast due to wiring things up the wrong way round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 minute ago, kevo said: Hi thanks for the replys no it was only a few seconds on my test track and no power at all was aplied . so it was quickly taken off . If the track had DCC power, that's a toasted decoder. Its not a matter of "turning up the throttle" - that's just a data signal of 1's and 0's. The voltage and current is available at all times. Motor wires don't matter. Other than motor may go the wrong way, ie. "forwards" when you want "backwards", but that's easily dealt with. Basic testing and assembly. 1) does the motor work on DC (no decoder in sight). Not sure ? Use a 9v battery connected to the motor terminals. If it spins, motor OK. 2) connect orange and grey Decoder wires to motor. Connect temporarily the red+black decoder wires to *programming track*, and read back some CV's (eg. CV1, or CV8). You should get a value which is not zero and not 255. That indicates decoder responding to commands. No sensible reply, decoder is toast, or wiring wrong this far. 3) If you pass step 2, move the red+black temporary wires to the live DCC main track, and try running the decoder on its address (probably 3, you'd have read it in CV1). Motor should spin up and down. 4) Now, connect the decoder red+black to the pickup screw terminals, and re-assemble the loco, being absolutely sure that no stray metal parts of the orange or grey can touch the metal of the chassis - ie. if you weren't tidy at the motor terminals, you could cause a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 brilliant thanks Nigel i will have a go and follow them steps i really would like to get this working propperly 👍 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 Hi nigel just to let you know i followed them steps and big relife the decoder is responed ing ☺️motor spins each way. i will give it a break this eve and try a reassemble the motor .tomorrow eve after work . just to re cap i doint need to use tape etc as it was dcc ready is that right thanks kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 12 hours ago, kevo said: Hi nigel just to let you know i followed them steps and big relife the decoder is responed ing ☺️motor spins each way. i will give it a break this eve and try a reassemble the motor .tomorrow eve after work . just to re cap i doint need to use tape etc as it was dcc ready is that right thanks kevin That's good progress. I'd have a bit of tape around the orange/grey wires at the motor brush connections to be certain they can't touch anything when things are assembled. (I'd have used heat-shrink on the wires for that, but that's more complication). If you have a multi-meter, you should be able to show no connection between the motor brushes and the motor body. Then move to the next assembly stages. You should be able to have assembled chassis, with the decoder red/black not wired to chassis, and test that with the "lash up" contacts. And then finally, connect the red/black to the chassis block - could even do that checking one wire at a time, with the other wire going to the lash-up connections to prove things, provided you keep your "red/black" to track arrangements very clear in your head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 Hi Nigel Please to tell you its all working 👍. realy greatfull for your help and advice . and it runs nice and smooth . thanks again . kevin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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