You're in the army now - well, maybe.

[Ozexpatriate]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

So I expect more escalation.

Attacks on US infrastructure in Jordan threatens escalation much more than Yemini action at sea.

 

Different estimates count as many as 171 attacks on US assets in Iraq and Syria since the Gaza War began.

 

Al Jazeera is quoting the 'boiling frog' analogy - from an Iranian-American.

[jjb1970]

One of the interesting aspects of the Tower 22 attack is that initially Jordan claimed it was not in Jordan. That might have been confusion but it might indicate the pressure Jordan is under from public opinion over what is happening in Gaza and that bringing attention to US bases on their territory is unwelcome.

 

The big escalation will be if Israel invades Lebanon. There's a lot of noise about preparing their forces to advance to the Litani River and taking on Hezbollah. That might be what ignites a regional conflagration. 

[The Johnster]

13 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Perhaps we're missing a trick here.

Couldn't we reduce our defence spending or get more ammo for the same money by buying it from the People's Republic?  😁

On Temu, presumably…

[KeithMacdonald]

On 31/01/2024 at 10:52, pete_mcfarlane said:

I can't help thinking that a lot of the criticism is down to us (for once) collectively preparing for the next war, so our forces are no longer able to fight the 1980s version of WW3. 

 

"Preparing" is a complex and multi-faceted subject. Easily confused and distracted by our politicians short-term bluster and sound-bite promises.

 

NATO operating doctrine for the last three decades or so has been for short-sharp assymetric operations, mostly (if not all) against less well-equipped oppositions. Or was until the bottomless pit of 20 years in Afghanistan. Despite all the military deja-vu lessons, NATO still has no workable strategy for long conflicts or total-war. Because even with the US involvement, we have all deindustrialised so much that we do not have enough large-scale heavy industries to feed the neccessary industries at high volume for long periods of time. The military supply-chain requirements cannot be fulfilled by our own manufacturing base.

 

What's happening in Port Talbot is a case in point. The ability to make high-quality steel from raw ore with blast furnesses is being dismantled and perhaps being replaced by a reliance on recycling imported scrap steel using electric arc furnesses. Note the "perhaps" (it's a big perhaps) because the UK already has just about the highest cost of electricity in Europe. Why would any sane manufacturer choose to put an electric arc furness in the UK? Unless there are massive UK government subsidies, to achieve what?

e.g.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/09/08/soaring-energy-prices-how-does-the-uk-compare-with-europe

 

The UK ranked 28th in the world steel-production league table for 2022 (down from 24th in 2021)

 

 

https://worldsteel.org/wp-content/uploads/World-Steel-in-Figures-2023.pdf

 

 

[Bon Accord]

On 30/01/2024 at 12:54, Michael Hodgson said:

 

 

Regulars tend to see themselves as professionals and look down their noses at Teritorials as part-timers playing soldiers and at wartime conscripts who they see as unenthusiastic amateurs.  It's much the same in the other services.  My father volunteered so he joined the RAFVR and had VR on his uniform lapels.  So everybody knew who was a "proper" airman.  Similarly the Royal Navy had the RNVR or "Wavy Navy" recruited from those who had experience on merchant vessels.

 

RNVR were those recruited into the RN who had no seagoing experience at all.

RNR were either ex full time RN or Merchant Seamen.

 

Both sets of reserves were amalgamated in the 1950s, however there remains distinct "lists" of officers dependant on whether they're ex RN, Merchant Seamen or whether they're volunteers who don't fall into either category (which is most of them).

[burgundy]

Just to be clear, some Army Reserve units are made up of individuals for whom the military trade is the civilian day job. They can be very professional indeed. 

Best wishes 

Eric 

[ess1uk]

On 29/01/2024 at 15:08, Hroth said:

 

But here, the best you could hope for would be something leading to a Level 2 in Public Service.

 

 

Got that thanks

[Classsix T]

On 31/01/2024 at 16:26, Roddy Angus said:

That's how I got drawn in.  Advertised for those interested in computer games, back in 1983, and I ended up as a Blowpipe operator.  For those not in the know, Blowpipe was a manually guided anti-aircraft missile, with a limited anti-vehicle capability.

 

Roddy

Still happening my friend... still happening:

https://kotaku.com/fortnite-epic-british-army-elzthewitch-yungfilly1-1851184946

 

Which given the demographic of youngsters that play Fortnite, seems to make it's use as a recruitment tool even more disturbing than the US military's involvement with Call of Duty.

 

C6T.

[tomparryharry]

On 03/02/2024 at 13:30, KeithMacdonald said:

 

"Preparing" is a complex and multi-faceted subject. Easily confused and distracted by our politicians short-term bluster and sound-bite promises.

 

NATO operating doctrine for the last three decades or so has been for short-sharp assymetric operations, mostly (if not all) against less well-equipped oppositions. Or was until the bottomless pit of 20 years in Afghanistan. Despite all the military deja-vu lessons, NATO still has no workable strategy for long conflicts or total-war. Because even with the US involvement, we have all deindustrialised so much that we do not have enough large-scale heavy industries to feed the neccessary industries at high volume for long periods of time. The military supply-chain requirements cannot be fulfilled by our own manufacturing base.

 

What's happening in Port Talbot is a case in point. The ability to make high-quality steel from raw ore with blast furnesses is being dismantled and perhaps being replaced by a reliance on recycling imported scrap steel using electric arc furnesses. Note the "perhaps" (it's a big perhaps) because the UK already has just about the highest cost of electricity in Europe. Why would any sane manufacturer choose to put an electric arc furness in the UK? Unless there are massive UK government subsidies, to achieve what?

e.g.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/09/08/soaring-energy-prices-how-does-the-uk-compare-with-europe

 

The UK ranked 28th in the world steel-production league table for 2022 (down from 24th in 2021)

 

 

https://worldsteel.org/wp-content/uploads/World-Steel-in-Figures-2023.pdf

 

 

I'm not entirely sure, but I'd suggest the current doctrines will weigh against steel as a prime-source material. The current anti-tank missiles are mainly made from aluminium. Having seen the fate of the (supposedly superior) T90, I'd guess the USA are currently re-fitting the blow-out panels on the Abrams, and other vehicles. 

 

Drone warfare is the latest thing on the battlefield, with young people being very capable of building & operating drones to devastating effect.   Gender counts for very little here, just a keen eye, and steady fingers.

[BrakeCoach]

With unrest everywhere including in the US, I can admit that I am a bit worried as a Korean living in the US

[Michael Hodgson]

30 minutes ago, BrakeCoach said:

With unrest everywhere including in the US, I can admit that I am a bit worried as a Korean living in the US

I think I'd be rather more worried if I were an American living in Korea.

[BrakeCoach]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I think I'd be rather more worried if I were an American living in Korea.

well in either case, they would be involved in war.

i'm pretty sure technically most korean male citizens are supposed to serve if that happens, including those living in overseas.

[KeithMacdonald]

5 hours ago, Classsix T said:

given the demographic of youngsters that play Fortnite, seems to make it's use as a recruitment tool even more disturbing than the US military's involvement with Call of Duty.

 

Disturbing, but natural, as it makes an excellent training and pre-selection tool for miltary personnel requirements. Psychologically, the "benefit" of these games (for the selectors) is that most recruits will have already been (at least in part) desensitised to the visceral and emotional realities of what they are involved in. Drone operations and "on-screen" warfare from a safe distance.

 

One might hope our young recruits are involved in more peaceful operations like this.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/lifeboat-deployed-from-drone/

But of course) the payload can rapidly be changed to something less peaceful.

[Classsix T]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Disturbing, but natural, as it makes an excellent training and pre-selection tool for miltary personnel requirements. Psychologically, the "benefit" of these games (for the selectors) is that most recruits will have already been (at least in part) desensitised to the visceral and emotional realities of what they are involved in. Drone operations and "on-screen" warfare from a safe distance.

 

One might hope our young recruits are involved in more peaceful operations like this.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/lifeboat-deployed-from-drone/

But of course) the payload can rapidly be changed to something less peaceful.

You're sh!!tting me, right?

If the past experience of involvement of UK citizens in questionable foreign military policy decisions has been anything to go by, what is retuned is physically and/or mentally broken people and body bags.

 

The "desensitising" effect means nothing if the actions of the operation are revealed to those responsible at a later date and they're incapable of dealing with it. Besides which, if you just want robots to bomb weddings, just get AI to do it.

 

I think it's rather telling that our 'foes' use morally ambiguous means to recruit troops, I'll be damned if this country uses that as a basis to follow suit.

 

C6T.

[ess1uk]

On 31/01/2024 at 21:15, burgundy said:

It is a bit like your household or vehicle insurance policy. It is money for nothing until you really, really need it.

Best wishes 

Eric 

My insurance always finds a way not to pay out

[Classsix T]

I'd prefer for personal reasons to stay out of such discussions, my religious and geopolitical opinions are both inconsequential (in the grand scheme of things) and beyond the rules of this forum. However I did find this most erudite description of the war hawks ruleset rather enlightening:

 

"War requires the redefinition of one’s targets as not worthy of moral regard because our goals are usually to do immoral things to them, often for immoral reasons. We generally know right from wrong with regards to how “people” are treated, so we create categories of “non-people” whom we are allowed to commit crimes against. In turn, we have to free ourselves from the burden of self-reflection by turning all of our prior victims into villains we conquered and applying the same morality retroactively to them.

You don’t build up a military as large as the next 15 militaries combined because you’re defending yourself any more than you build a police force so large it qualifies as the third largest military on the planet. You do so because no one trusts YOU.

Cowboys and Indians, Birth of a Nation, Fu Manchu. We need villains to compare our villainy to, even if we have to invent them. Even if we have to forget how often we go back to the same well.

It was land, it was labor, it was gold. Hell, it still is. But with the industrial revolution and later the rise of petroleum resources, of course some random olive farmer or shepherd is going to be the villain of your next cultural narrative and stay there until there’s nothing left that you want to take from them.

Or maybe it’ll be water next. Since we’re being topical, consider why Israel has an illegal standing military in the West Bank despite conflict between the two ending almost 20 years ago. Consider why Israeli settlers kill hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank on Palestinian land each year. Consider how the West Bank gets more rainfall (615 mm) than London (585 mm) but Palestinians in the West Bank get rationed 20 liters a day while Israeli settlers in the West Bank use 487 liters a day and Israelis in actual Israel use 165 liters a day.

Consider how many cultural narratives are necessary to maintain this.

It’s not about people being mean to people who eat strange foods or look different. It’s about creating evil people who are born evil so that your own evil gets seen as justice."

 

C6T.

[jjb1970]

Many years ago I used to find the news reporting in much of the rest of the world distasteful and unnecessary, robbing victims of dignity in order to provide news entertainment which can verge on a form of voyeurism (war porn). The news in the Middle East tends to be much more graphic than in the US and Europe.  Now I have flipped,  if people support the idea of bombing other countries they should face what that actually means and what things like 'surgical strikes' and 'collateral damage' mean. 

[Ozexpatriate]

34 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

if people support the idea of bombing other countries they should face what that actually means

Phan Thị Kim Phúc was the little girl in a Pulitzer-winning photograph called "The Terror of War" taken at Trảng Bàng in 1972. She now lives in Canada and was recently on a book tour promoting her book, "The Girl in the Picture".

 

Photojournalism like this (and The Execution of Nguyễn Văn Lém, which won a Pulitzer in 1968) changed the narrative of the Vietnam war in the US.

[KeithMacdonald]

11 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Phan Thị Kim Phúc was the little girl in a Pulitzer-winning photograph called "The Terror of War" taken at Trảng Bàng in 1972. She now lives in Canada and was recently on a book tour promoting her book, "The Girl in the Picture". Photojournalism like this (and The Execution of Nguyễn Văn Lém, which won a Pulitzer in 1968) changed the narrative of the Vietnam war in the US.

 

For that classic reason, and the reasons mentioned by @Classsix T ...

 

16 hours ago, Classsix T said:

"War requires the redefinition of one’s targets as not worthy of moral regard because our goals are usually to do immoral things to them, often for immoral reasons.

 

... we see much less "on the ground" reporting by MSM operatives of what is actually happening from where it happens. It's easier to dehumanise the "enemy" when all we get are press releases being read by aquiescent news readers, with no explanation of how or why they became an "enemy".

[62613]

On 05/02/2024 at 13:00, KeithMacdonald said:

 

For that classic reason, and the reasons mentioned by @Classsix T ...

 

 

... we see much less "on the ground" reporting by MSM operatives of what is actually happening from where it happens. It's easier to dehumanise the "enemy" when all we get are press releases being read by aquiescent news readers, with no explanation of how or why they became an "enemy".

Part of that is surely that MSM operators are now "embedded" with the force they are reporting from, and are only able to report on that which they are allowed to see, or be told about via a press release. The hundred - odd journalists killed in Gaza are doing the world a favour.