Modelling - Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier CCT(E)

[Scottish Modeller]

I'm looking to gather enough info to model some of these Motor Car Vans

 

Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier CCT(E)

 

I have book sources for the coach info already and I've asked in other places and gained a fair amount of information already.

 

So -  Thanks to Clive for the below info

 

Quote

There were two versions of the CCT(E), one as already stated on redundant LNER built Illford stock, they had truss underframes and ran on ex GNR Fox type bogies. The other batch were rebuilt from GER Illford stock and had tie rod underframes, these were mounted on GER type bogies.
In this photo the lead van is a converted LNER van, the second one is a GER one. https://api.flickr.com/photos/126693116@N06/27247017080/in/photolist-2mnvUEf-2n2xJ7e-2j1dS3M-HvJ5Uy-S8Q6bG-ZCEE5L-ftFsGA-cP4ryL-9AGfJc-2n69apu-pLBESL-JNUyWV-7n6uNe

 

See also...

 

https://api.flickr.com/photos/tags/angloscottishcarcarrier

 

Quote

E71000E to E71034E were built at Stratford in the 1950s on the frames of redundant LNER 54ft ‘Ilford’ stock originally built in 1935/36.

 

Finding some drawings would be a big help, but more photos woul;d be just as useful.

 

Thanks

Phil H

[31A]

I made a model representation of one of the CCTs that was converted from a Great Eastern suburban coach back in 2021, using an old Graham Farish (Grafar) suburban coach as the basis.  It comes out about 4mm too long unfortunately, but is pretty close in other dimensions.  I did put some more photos of how I did it on my layout thread "Train Spotting at Finsbury Square" but unfortunately they were lost in the server crash!

 

 

I don't know what other book references you've got, but apart from the photos you've found on line I also got information from "BR Parcels and Passenger-Rated Stock" Vol 1, David Larkin, (Kestrel Railway Books, 2014) p66 (photo of E71038E at Exeter Central, and running number info), and the Great Eastern Society Journal no 185 (good photo but probably not much else you don't already know).

 

I don't know of a decent drawing unfortunately, although there's an 'outline drawing' in "British Railways Pre-Nationalisation Coaching Stock" Vol 1 (Longworth); it is reproduced very small and includes several inaccuracies such as spurious GER-style panelling and windows in each door rather than just the LH one of the pair, but it does at least show where the doors were!

 

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi Steve,

 

Thanks for the posting - much appreciated.

 

I thought I had seen info on modelling these, but could not find the thread! Now I know why.

 

Book references...

 

Mainly information from the same sources as you stated.

 

"BR Parcels and Passenger-Rated Stock" Vol 1, David Larkin, (Kestrel Railway Books, 2014)

"British Railways Pre-Nationalisation Coaching Stock" Vol 1 (Longworth)

"LNER Carriages" by Michael Harris

 

Also photos in other books covering ECML Scottish Region, BR Coaching Stock Group on IO Groups.

 

I don't have the GER extracts, but as you say, not a lot there that isn't already known.

 

Thanks

Phil H

 

EDIT - Steve, found the original thread.... Looked at Internet Wayback Machine and got all the text but still not your photos

Edited February 21 by Scottish Modeller
Add info

[cctransuk]

On 20/02/2024 at 14:05, Scottish Modeller said:

Finding some drawings would be a big help, but more photos would be just as useful.

 

I have this of BR Diagram 817; whether there were similar conversion diagrams for the other variants, I cannot say.

 

 

E96202E (PRESERVED AT GCR)

 

 

I have a higher resolution image of the drawing - email me at cctrans@hotmail.com is required.

 

John Isherwood.

Edited February 21 by cctransuk

[Scottish Modeller]

5 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I have this of BR Diagram 817; whether there were similar conversion diagrams for the other variants, I cannot say.

 

 

E96202E (PRESERVED AT GCR)

 

 

I have a higher resolution image of the drawing - email me at cctrans@ hotmail.com is required.

 

John Isherwood.

Hi John,

 

Thanks - much appreciated.

 

Email to follow shortly!

 

Phil H

[cctransuk]

On 20/02/2024 at 14:05, Scottish Modeller said:

Finding some drawings would be a big help, but more photos would be just as useful.

 

BR CCT (LNER ILFORD STOCK U-F)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Copyright shown where known - please respect.

 

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

On 20/02/2024 at 14:05, Scottish Modeller said:

Finding some drawings would be a big help, but more photos would be just as useful.

 

BR GUV (LNER LOT 1224)

 

 

 

 

Copyright shown where known - please respect.

 

John Isherwood.

 

[cctransuk]

On 20/02/2024 at 14:05, Scottish Modeller said:

Finding some drawings would be a big help, but more photos woul;d be just as useful.

 

BR PMV (LNER DIA 53E LNER ILFORD STOCK U-F)

 

 

Copyright shown where known - please respect.

 

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

As to numbering, my records have : -

 

CCT(E) (GER ILFORD STOCK U-F) Nos.E71035-99E, SOME FOR ANGLO-SCOTTISH CAR CARRIER

 

CCT(E) (LNER ILFORD STOCK U-F) Nos.E71000-34E, SOME FOR ANGLO-SCOTTISH CAR CARRIER

 

PMV (GER ILFORD STOCK U-F) Nos.E6001-23, E6025-81E

 

CCT(E) (Ex LNER U-F) Nos.E96200E - E96203E, PREVIOUSLY E889030E - E889033 (BR NPCS Diagram 817)

 

John Isherwood.

[lee74clarke]

I find these vehicle's interesting as well, 31A's version looks spot on to me. Now, i'm not going to show mine, as my 'standards' can be quite embarrassing !

But, i have two sets i've shodified, one of old Lima GUV's, which are of course completely wrong, length, style, etc, but easy to repaint and make transfers that fit between the windows.

The second set, is just as ramshackle, old Hornby Dublo Gresley coaches, with new bogies, roof and ends repainted and side overlays I printed to resemble the prototype. I made a rake of 10, and if I lower the light level and squint a bit, they're just about OK.

To be honest, I enjoyed throwing them together, more than seeing them on the track., but they run pretty well with an RTR A4.

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

Over the 3 days of Moderail Scotland I had a lot of interest shown in this project and gained more info as well!

 

I showed my initial artwork and that generated even more interest.

 

Just a shame the interest didn't produce any more photos!

 

Please note - these are done to N scale and, as they have been designed to fit on the Farish 57' GUV (there is no 54' coaching stock available as a model) are not scale models!

 

So, research has shown that there was some variation between the coaches. Solme appear to be a lighter shade of BR Maroon compared to others. Some also appear to have had the centre door windows painted over. Then we have some that never carried the wording!

 

Anyway, photos of the draft artwork, ready to print onto either decal paper or vinyl.

 

Thanks

Phil H

 

Edited March 1 by Scottish Modeller
Reposition images

[The Johnster]

Might the 'lighter shade of maroon' (not a Procol Harum song) not be pre-1956 unlined carmine or crimson? 

 

I am a little confused by the descriptions of CCT or GUV for these vehicles, my understanding being that a CCT, Covered Carriage Truck, is a 4-wheeled passneger-rated van with end and side loading doors while a GUV, General Utitility Vehicle, is a bogie vehicle with end and side loading doors.  However, the 40' LMS GUV as modelled by Lima has no side doors, and neither does some of the Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier bogie stock that seems to be categorised here as CCTs.  Doesn't take much to confusticate The Johnster deze daze...