Struggling to understand if I need any signalling for a small mico layout

[davidge]

I am planning a micro layout in the 'James Hilton' style but cannot decide whether I will need to include any signalling or not. I've ready many threads and a couple of books (including Bob Essery's), looked at some actual signalling diagrams but still find it confusing so any advice would be most welcome.

 

The scenario is a small south London single platform terminus and a yard at the the end of a single line branch that probably has a one or stations with passing loops further up the line.

Era late BR/early NSE.
Coloured light signals.
Traffic: 2-car EMU/DMU for passenger trafic and short freight/parcels trains (e.g. Class 33 + a few wagons).

 

The schematic is below. Total length of layout as shown by dotted box - only 1100mm (fits onto a Scale Model Scenery baseboard).

 

 

A = single line in/out which also acts as headshunt (see below) for shunting between B and C
B = platform
C = yard
D = short headshunt - probably hold a Class 08 or perhaps Class 33 for shunting purposes
S1 to S4 show where signals might or might not be positioned - perhaps no signals are required at all!

 

Typical movements:
- EMU/DMU arrive/depart into/from B
- Freight arrives into B and gets shunted to C by loco in D
- Could have some subsequent freight shunting between B and C to assemble train

- Loco arrives form A to collect freight
- Freight departs to A from B or C (could have rule that all freight departs only from B but I don't think that would be likely as freight would then always need to be shunted to B first - but it may simplify things from a signalling perspective).

 

Ideas I had:

- assume there is an advanced starting signal further up A and visible from train in B (have banner repeater if not?) then ground signals at S1 and S2 to control shunting moves using A as a headshunt between the station and the advanced starter. Any train in B could depart if starter and ground signal at S1 allowed. S2 would allow freight train to depart to A (which would then have to obey the advanced starter once it got there.

- starter with subsidery 'shunt on' signal at S1 but then how would departure of freight from C be controlled?

 

Or perhaps I simply need a ground frame (yet another confusing topic) near the station throat?

 

Any help would be much appreciated! Apologies if my terminolgy is somewhat dodgy...

[Cwmtwrch]

Such a small set up would never have a spare loco for shunting purposes. It would spend virtually all its time with nothing to do, which is very, very, expensive in real life. If you extend D 'offstage' it can form the end of a loop with A giving a run-round for the freight, perhaps with a loco cassette offstage to minimise handling of the loco. The EMU/DEMU/DMU will just shuttle in and out of the platform as timetabled, while freight will probably appear, do its work, and disappear again in the time between two passenger trains, so that there is never more than one train present at any one time. All that is then necessary is a ground frame to allow the guard to shunt as needed. The g/f can be released by a single line token or remotely by a control centre, depending on era; either way, no signalling is necessary, just a telephone. If you have space for a second siding it would probably make operation more interesting...

37 minutes ago, davidge said:

Or perhaps I simply need a ground frame (yet another confusing topic

A signal box is equipped to accept or refuse trains from the next box along the line [hence it is sometime described as a 'block post', the block being the space between two boxes, which should only ever be occupied by a single train]. The functions formerly controlled by multiple signal boxes are often now controlled by a remote signalling centre. In either case a ground frame is there solely to operate one or more points, but has no control over trains.

[Michael Hodgson]

Realistically by the NSE era (1980s), there wouldn't be any traditional freight.  It would probably be only one speciific traffic only (eg oil tankers) with whatever modern handlign facilities that particular traffic requires.  I agree that it wouldn;t need a signal box or signals, nor a shunting loco, which means you would need the ability to run round - ie an engine release crossover.  Probably worked under One Engine in Steam rules, with a ground frame released by an Annetts key on the end of the Train Staff., or possibly electrically released from a controlling signalbox miles away.

 

I would also question the plausibility of a single line branch in South London being lon enough and having such a frquent passenger service as to justify passing loops at intermediate stations.