BR Mk2a Green and Cream Tourist Stock

[Blobrick]

I ve been undertaking some research in connection with the Green and Cream Mk2a coaching stock used on the Kyle line in the 1980s. However, so far l ve been unable to find a date as to when it was introduced or even withdrawn. Does anyone know if it was around the same time the MK1 Tourist stock was introduced on the West Highland line, which was around 1984 through to 1995?

 

Cheers

 

Bob C

[uax6]

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-101/observation-saloon implies that it was 1989 that the green/cream mk2 were painted for the Kyle line....

 

With the last season being 1994.

 

Andy G

Edited March 2 by uax6

[Mol_PMB]

I certainly saw both sets on the same visit to Scotland in the 1990s. Along with brand new 158701 on its first visit to Scotland, if that helps date it. 

[Simon Bendall]

Saloon 6300 was painted for the 1988 season, the Mk.2s for the 1989 season. Last year was 1994 by which time the green/cream stock was being mixed with Regional Railways examples with ScotRail branding.

[Blobrick]

Just now, Simon Bendall said:

Saloon 6300 was painted for the 1988 season, the Mk.2s for the 1989 season. Last year was 1994 by which time the green/cream stock was being mixed with Regional Railways examples with ScotRail branding.

Thanks for the dates Simon, that certainly fits with what s been said here. So a big thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread, its been a great help

[The Evil Bus Driver]

22 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I certainly saw both sets on the same visit to Scotland in the 1990s. Along with brand new 158701 on its first visit to Scotland, if that helps date it. 

Wasn't 158701 the one that had to be rebuilt due to chassis issues?

 

Regarding the mk2 stock were these an earlier variation of the 2a as often they are shown with a mk1 style sliding gangway door crasher than the usual double folding end doors. Or am I missing something?

[Mol_PMB]

16 minutes ago, The Evil Bus Driver said:

Wasn't 158701 the one that had to be rebuilt due to chassis issues?

 

Regarding the mk2 stock were these an earlier variation of the 2a as often they are shown with a mk1 style sliding gangway door crasher than the usual double folding end doors. Or am I missing something?

These Mk2 stock with the different gangway doors would have been the original Mk2 (sometimes called Mk2Z) which preceded the Mk2A.

Harris lists the following Mk2Z vehicles in green/cream tourist livery:

TSO:

5132 'Clan Munro'

5139 'Clan Ross'

5154 'Clan Fraser'

5166 'Clan Mackenzie'

5191 'Clan Donald'

5193 'Clan MacLeod'

5212 'Caperkailzie'

SO:

5229 'Corriemoillie'

5234 'Clan Mackintosh'

BSO:

9385 'Balmacara'

9388 'Bailechaul'

9414 'Brahan Seer'

 

That suggests enough vehicles for two sets, though I only remember seeing one.

 

I don't know about chassis issues, but when I photographed 158701 at Inverness the yaw damper brackets had been removed as they were found to be foul of several platforms in Scotland.

I guess the date would have been summer 1990, I was only 14 at the time.

[uax6]

Presumably the Mk2Z stock was used as it was vacuum braked unlike the later Mk2 stock, so could run with the Met-Camm saloon?

 

Andy G

[hexagon789]

23 hours ago, uax6 said:

Presumably the Mk2Z stock was used as it was vacuum braked unlike the later Mk2 stock, so could run with the Met-Camm saloon?

 

Andy G

Some 2Z were converted to air brake and some 2A to vacuum, so that might just be coincidental in that respect.

[TravisM]

I thought I'd ask, mainly on behalf of @class26, I'm sure I've seen a picture on Flickr of the Green & Cream tourist set on the far north line, as far as Wick.  I know they were mainly used on the Kyle line but did they go up to Wick/Thurso only when there was possibly an equipment failure of the booked set, so it was a quick swop to make sure the service ran?

[hexagon789]

29 minutes ago, TravisM said:

I thought I'd ask, mainly on behalf of @class26, I'm sure I've seen a picture on Flickr of the Green & Cream tourist set on the far north line, as far as Wick.  I know they were mainly used on the Kyle line but did they go up to Wick/Thurso only when there was possibly an equipment failure of the booked set, so it was a quick swop to make sure the service ran?

Not regularly, as the set was required 6 days of 7 on the Kyle Line with maintenance nominally done on Sundays.

 

When the set was shortened in the off-peak season, spare vehicles may have been used on a scratch set.

 

I know this happened on the Aberdeen Line in the early 1990s with the odd vehicle, not sure about the Far North.

[Mol_PMB]

With 12 Mk2s and the obs, there must surely have been plenty of spare vehicles if only one set was required? 

[Blobrick]

58 minutes ago, TravisM said:

I thought I'd ask, mainly on behalf of @class26, I'm sure I've seen a picture on Flickr of the Green & Cream tourist set on the far north line, as far as Wick.  I know they were mainly used on the Kyle line but did they go up to Wick/Thurso only when there was possibly an equipment failure of the booked set, so it was a quick swop to make sure the service ran?

 

I ve seen a photo on Flickr of 37 419 at Thurso April 17th 1990 with two Tourist liveried  Mk2a coaches in tow. This would be during the period that the Far North line was severed from the rest of the network after the collapse of the Ness viaduct.

Edited March 4 by Blobrick

[hexagon789]

4 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

With 12 Mk2s and the obs, there must surely have been plenty of spare vehicles if only one set was required? 

Sorry I meant one set in the off-peak season.

 

In the peak season I believe there were two, one with the observation car one without.

 

Formations being load 3/4 in winter, 5/6 in peak season.

[Blobrick]

Here's a photo l found on the web showing 37421 with Tourist stock at Strathcarron 14 July 1989. Class 156 on opposite line

[60B]

1 hour ago, Blobrick said:

 

I ve seen a photo on Flickr of 37 419 at Thurso April 17th 1990 with two Tourist liveried  Mk2a coaches in tow

Which now has me wondering, were they originally stranded after the bridge collapse (the opening of the new one was still a month away) or were they rotated in?

[Blobrick]

6 hours ago, 60B said:

Which now has me wondering, were they originally stranded after the bridge collapse (the opening of the new one was still a month away) or were they rotated in?

 

There's a collection of photos on Flickr showing stock transfer during the 15 months period when  the rebuilding of the Ness viaduct was on going

 

(https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/albums/72157639810566544/)

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/12293897945/in/album-72157639810566544/

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/12347193233/in/album-72157639810566544/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/12347944014/in/album-72157639810566544/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/12477663253/in/album-72157639810566544/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/12477976864/in/album-72157639810566544/

 

 

Bob C.

 

Edited March 5 by Blobrick

[60B]

2 hours ago, Blobrick said:

 

There's a collection of photos on Flickr showing stock transfer during the 15 months period when  the rebuilding of the Ness viaduct was on going

 

(https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/albums/72157639810566544/)

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/12293897945/in/album-72157639810566544/

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/12347193233/in/album-72157639810566544/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/12347944014/in/album-72157639810566544/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/12477663253/in/album-72157639810566544/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/roddymacphee/12477976864/in/album-72157639810566544/

 

 

Bob C.

 

Thanks Bob, I was Googling around because I could swear I read a list of what came in and out at Muir Of Ord but found that Flickr set in the RealTrack 156 thread. 

[Blobrick]

21 hours ago, TravisM said:

I thought I'd ask, mainly on behalf of @class26, I'm sure I've seen a picture on Flickr of the Green & Cream tourist set on the far north line, as far as Wick.  I know they were mainly used on the Kyle line but did they go up to Wick/Thurso only when there was possibly an equipment failure of the booked set, so it was a quick swop to make sure the service ran?

 

Heres a very poor screen grab from a video on youtube called The Far North Dingwall to Wick 1989, it shows two TSOs in Tourist livery with a Blue Grey BG in rear

Edited March 5 by Blobrick

[Blobrick]

On 05/03/2024 at 07:07, 60B said:

Thanks Bob, I was Googling around because I could swear I read a list of what came in and out at Muir Of Ord but found that Flickr set in the RealTrack 156 thread. 

 

 

From my limited research so far.... Class 37414/415/416/419/420/421 seen working passenger stock 37260 x 2OBA  and 37261 on a rake of TTA (Shell livery l believe)

Two part rake for the north typically seems to be Mk1 TSO,BG,TSO+MKlla BSO,TSO

 

It seems that normally the TSO+BSO set went to Wick, with the 3 coach formation going to Thurso, typically a BG+TSO+TSO (MKl) rake in addition to above, though l ve seen at least one photo of a two coach set at Thurso too! Suspect it was down to the time of year and patronage 

 

 

There's a video on You tube covering the initial incident, in it it states the 6 locos and 4 coach sets were trapped on the north side, which was sufficient to run a service straight off .I ve read somewhere that there were only 3 x Locomotives and 6 x Sprinter set at any one time working north from the Muir of Ord during the 15 month period.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhXPLUzxU-8

 

Hope this helps

 

Bob C

Edited March 7 by Blobrick

[nightstar.train]

Slightly off topic but one of the photos shows a Mk1 Pullman and a Mk1 Restaurant of some description being moved north. Were these for the summer season for special excursions? Why else would they be moved up North of Inverness?

 

 

[Blobrick]

1 hour ago, nightstar.train said:

Slightly off topic but one of the photos shows a Mk1 Pullman and a Mk1 Restaurant of some description being moved north. Were these for the summer season for special excursions? Why else would they be moved up North of Inverness?

 

 

 

Good question. I ve not seen these coaches turn up in any other photos etc over the 15 months in question?

[nightstar.train]

23 hours ago, Blobrick said:

 

Good question. I ve not seen these coaches turn up in any other photos etc over the 15 months in question?

 

Is there a list of what was trapped north when the viaduct first collapsed? Could the photo be mislabelled and the coaches actually be being brought south after rescue? 

[Blobrick]

37 minutes ago, nightstar.train said:

 

Is there a list of what was trapped north when the viaduct first collapsed? Could the photo be mislabelled and the coaches actually be being brought south after rescue? 

 

 

I m currently digging to find a list.............

 

Bob C

[Simon Bendall]

On 07/03/2024 at 16:48, nightstar.train said:

Slightly off topic but one of the photos shows a Mk1 Pullman and a Mk1 Restaurant of some description being moved north. Were these for the summer season for special excursions? Why else would they be moved up North of Inverness?

 

This was Intercity charter unit stock for the Orcadian and Highlander, which included Mk.1 Pullman kitchen car 335. The others were 1672, 3045, 3096, 3098, 3100 and 17025.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/145367983@N08/49676831082

 

Locos trapped to the north of the collapse were initially 37414/15/16/17/19/21 and a reported 16 coaches. 156446/57/74/77/78 were moved north by road in March/April 1989, 37414/19 returned at the same time. 37415/16/17/21 returned to Inverness in October and were replaced by 37418/19/20. The charter stock, 6300 and other coaches also moved south at this point.

Edited March 8 by Simon Bendall