Roco White z21 Start - is this normal?

[Gravy]

Hi,

I have attached a short video showing my Z21 app displaying fluctuating power values on my White z21 Start. 

Please can someone with the same controller confirm if they get similar fluctuations?

I have tried another 19VDC PSU and I get the same fluctuations. 

I also see the same fluctuating values using the Z21 Maintenance Tool on my PC. 

I have recently been experiencing intermittent slow and stuttering running of different locos at different times, which I’m trying to pin down. 

Cheers,

David

[WIMorrison]

I see nothing wrong in that video. The power supply is steady as is the track voltage, and you are not showing any load on the system - do you have any locos on the track at all, or anything that could be drawing some current?

 

The current shown isn’t high enough to suggest that you are actually running anything an could simply be consumption by decoders idling with nothing moving.

[jpendle]

I agree with Iain that looks fine to me and a better test would be with some locos running  and providing a load for the Z21 to deal with.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Gravy]

 

Thank you Iain and John, but I'm wondering if the video is actually playing for you. I have to click on it to get it to play.

 

The Electricity on Main Track reading fluctuates between 55mA and 121mA and the bottom two voltage readings fluctuate between 17.7V and 18.1V. It was recorded whilst running a loco pulling four carriages arround a radius 3 elongated loop.

 

Thanks

[Nigelcliffe]

Still not enough "wobble" to cause me to worry.     

The voltage is well within what I'd expect of any system:  movement of at most 0.4v, and that assumes the readings are accurate (don't know the specification of the devices used within the z21 to get those measurements).  . 

Current fluctuation is very small, and if there is a loco running, that's going to be the cause of those changes.  

 

 

[WIMorrison]

17 minutes ago, Gravy said:

Thank you Iain and John, but I'm wondering if the video is actually playing for you. I have to click on it to get it to play.

 

Yes it was, we know how to make a video play 😉

[Gravy]

Thanks Nigel.

[jamesed]

Are you using the Roco power supply?  I ask because you mention using a 19v psu. The Roco supplied power supplies are normally 20v or 18v.  I'm wondering if you are using a psu that doesn't have a regulated output. 

[Gravy]

I use the 19VDC PSU that came with the z21 Start. As I said, I get the same result when I tried using a Hornby 19VDC PSU. 

I don’t know for certain if either are regulated or not. There’s nothing on the labels to indicate as such. 

[WIMorrison]

Strange, because the official power supply is 20v

 

 

 

10851 Switching power supply 54 Watts (roco.cc)

[Gravy]

My bad. 18V not 19.

I have attached a photo of my z21 controller and the 18V 36W Roco PSU it came with.
 

 

[RobinofLoxley]

This kind of question usually appears when there is an operating problem, and people start looking for some kind of fault.

 

 

[Gravy]

44 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

This kind of question usually appears when there is an operating problem, and people start looking for some kind of fault.

 

 

I have only asked one question at the start of this post - “Please can someone with the same controller confirm if they get similar fluctuations?”

As I said, I have intermittent (and strange/random) poor running (and a dead ESU decoder). I deliberately didn’t list any problem examples, because I didn’t want to muddy the water and take the focus from my question.

Whilst nobody has categorically confirmed my readings are normal, some have suggested that the readings I see are probably ok and I’m inclined to agree, so I’ll close the topic.

[WIMorrison]

5 hours ago, Gravy said:

 

My bad. 18V not 19.

I have attached a photo of my z21 controller and the 18V 36W Roco PSU it came with.

 

I wasn’t aware that Roco sold this SMPS in UK however it is acceptable and is also a stabilised power supply, albeit at a lower voltage and current than the normally used SMPS which o showed earlier.

 

The fluctuations that you show are simply down to the loco moving around the layout, and not caused by the SMPS or the z21.

[GrumpyPenguin]

8 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

I wasn’t aware that Roco sold this SMPS in UK

They do - my Z21 came with one that was immmediatly destroyed & binned - I would never use one of those nastly adaptors.

[WIMorrison]

17 minutes ago, chiefpenguin said:

I would never use one of those nastly adaptors.

 

I used them for many years after I moved back to the UK. Never had a single issue in all the years I used them and the only ceased use when the parent item with the moulded Schuko plug that needed them was retired.

[GrumpyPenguin]

14 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

I used them for many years after I moved back to the UK. Never had a single issue in all the years I used them and the only ceased use when the parent item with the moulded Schuko plug that needed them was retired.

My main profession was an electrical engineer with a fault finding background - over the years I replace far too many sockets that had been damaged by the use of various adaptors.

 

I still carry out a fair amount of PA Testing and fail them on the grounds that they put undue strain on the sockets.

Edited March 24 by chiefpenguin

[jamesed]

I'm inclined to agree with @chiefpenguin Some 13A wall sockets just aren't built as well as others (MK and Crabtree are pretty good but some of the cheaper ones just aren't as good quality and don't stand up to misuse so well). It's possible that with the weight of the psu the pins are pushing up at an angle and there is a bit of arcing going on in the socket, which, over time, will get worse and could be dangerous.  This could be causing spikes which aren't being picked up fully on the monitoring app but may be what has caused the decoder damage.  First off, don't plug this psu directly into a wall socket. Use an extension lead  with a loose trailing socket so it can plug in without stress on the pins. It would be worth inspecting the plug pins first to make sure there is no damage or carbon build up due to arcing.  The other option is to replace it with the more common psu type as shown in the photo Iain posted but that may not be necessary.  On the other hand, there may be nothing wrong at all with the psu or controller and the problem may originate elsewhere. 

[GrumpyPenguin]

Further to the subject of these adaptors, a long time ago I PAT'ed a server room that had a lot of these, some directly plugged in to sockets on the dado trunking and some on extention leads. On of the IT techies mentioned that they seed to have issue with equipment "like loose connectios". In the end we wired up enough European type sockets for some of the equipment and they had no further issues.

 

Hence, my dislike of them.

[WIMorrison]

Before this thread starts getting completely irrelevant to daily life the adapter in use has the BSI Kitemark and the licence number - both clearly visible in the picture from the OP. You can find out what this means here

 

The BSI Kitemark - Service Quality Certification Mark

 

I also repeat that I used these devices for many years, on many devices with the kitchen appliances getting plugged in and out without a single instance of the 'issues' described above. The IT equipment that was plugged in through these adapters suffered absolutely no performance issues and one router still doesn't have any issues. The power supply for my LocoNet adapter is also connected via one of these items and also shows zero issues - and it passed PAT testing at Glasgow and Warley last year.

[GrumpyPenguin]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

Before this thread starts getting completely irrelevant to daily life the adapter in use has the BSI Kitemark and the licence number - both clearly visible in the picture from the OP. You can find out what this means here

 

The BSI Kitemark - Service Quality Certification Mark

 

I also repeat that I used these devices for many years, on many devices with the kitchen appliances getting plugged in and out without a single instance of the 'issues' described above. The IT equipment that was plugged in through these adapters suffered absolutely no performance issues and one router still doesn't have any issues. The power supply for my LocoNet adapter is also connected via one of these items and also shows zero issues - and it passed PAT testing at Glasgow and Warley last year.

Lets agree to disagree and then leave it at that - our actual experiences are very different.