Early BR freight stock markings

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

How many piped vehicles survived at that time without having gained 'proper' vac-brakes ? ...... I've certainly never heard of a VANPIPE or similar coding !

Not many. Strangely BR built some batches of specialist wagons only piped - Covhops https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcovhop/eb633154 and Grain https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgp but there were others. Piping seems understandable for the odd wagon that could fill in a rake of otherwise vacuum braked wagons, but not these wagons which more usually worked in rakes, even block trains even in the 1950s. There is an argument that the unloading mechanism of these wagons made vacuum braking difficult. But it was done, as each had VB built Lots. 

 

Yes agree, no VANPIPES. 

 

Paul

[Wickham Green too]

Hmmmm ....... a block train of piped-only wagons is an interesting concept !

[Rivercider]

3 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

How many piped vehicles survived at that time without having gained 'proper' vac-brakes ? ...... I've certainly never heard of a VANPIPE or similar coding !

There were a number of vac-piped cokehops, we occasionally got a few of them on the coke traffic to Hallen Marsh. Since they generally arrived mixed in with the larger number of unfitted cokehops I suspect the pipes were seldom used,

 

cheers 

[Fat Controller]

10 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Hmmmm ....... a block train of piped-only wagons is an interesting concept !

There was an accident on the WCML, where a train of SAB (two-axle air-braked, vac-piped) ran away . Upon investigation, it was found that all the vac-pipes were coupled, but the air-brake was confined to the front loco.

[The Johnster]

The situation on the ground in the 70s was that vac-piped vehicles were not visually distinguished from vac-fitted except by the colour of the pipe, white for blow-throughs (which of course we should have called 'suck throughs, but the terminology was loco-orientated and one 'blew' brakes off with the exhauster) and red for fitted.  And of course the lack of vac cyldinders and release cords.  Through pipes were rare except on brake vans, which did not have vacuum brakes as there was a (debateably sentient) brake operating mechanism aboard the van, though they may have had brake 'setters' (manually operated inlet valves) and gauges.  I was familiar with the cokehops mentioned, but the majority of blow-through piped vehicles I came across were air-braked but piped for use in fitted heads, and were often ferry vehicles. 

 

Blow-throughs could be used in fitted heads or in class 6 fully fitted trains so long as the rear four axles of the head or train were vacuum braked, and of course the required brake force was available.  In the days when brake vans were used on fully fitted express goods trains, it was common practice to marshall two fitted vans behind the blow-through brake van in order to steady the ride for the guard at the high speeds sometimes reached by these trains, which prior to 1967 (Thirsk derailment, but there had been a series of short-wheelbase wagon plain line derailments due to the poor riding of the wagons) and the blanket 45mph speed limit on 10' wheelbase vehicles could be booked to run up to 60mph, and if some of the accounts of running fish trains to express passenger timings on the ECML with V2s and pacifics are to be believed, sometimes a bit faster than that!*

 

Academic by my day; the 1969 single-manning agreement allowed guards to ride on the locomotive on fully-fitted class 6 trains, and brake vans were dispensed with on them except where there was a particular operational need.  The only such job in my link was the empty Canton Sidings-Calvert bricks, 50mph 'PIPE' fitted wagons, which picked up traffic at Lawrence Hill including a dedicated brake van with a setter and gauge.  I worked this to Swindon for relief then home on the cushions, but the train reached its destination by being propelled along several miles of long siding on the formation of the former GCR London Extension; this was also my only booked working with a brake van through Box Tunnel.

 

 

*As the old rhyme would have it, 'the guard is the man/who rides in the van/the van's at the back of the train/The driver, in front, thinks the guard is a (something that rhymes)/and the guard thinks the driver's the same....'.

[Wickham Green too]

58 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

... Through pipes were rare except on brake vans, which did not have vacuum brakes as there was a (debatably sentient) brake operating mechanism aboard the van, ...

... except, of course when said brake van(s) had to be conveyed empty because of an unbalanced working of some sort. ( I won't suggest that the unbalanced guard should have remained with his van ! )

[Mark Saunders]

On 11/04/2024 at 19:49, Wickham Green too said:

How many piped vehicles survived at that time without having gained 'proper' vac-brakes ? ...... I've certainly never heard of a VANPIPE or similar coding !

The MoD Palvans and Highs were built with through pipes ; the Highs were later fitted. The TOPS diagram for the highs is on the Barrowmore site clearly shows through piped.

[Wheatley]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

*As the old rhyme would have it, 'the guard is the man/who rides in the van/the van's at the back of the train/The driver, in front, thinks the guard is a (something that rhymes)/and the guard thinks the driver's the same....'.

I learnt this on my Block Signalling course at Donny in 1987! Admittedly there were three redundant freight guards on the course so we obviously got a completely unbiased explanation of the then new DOO arrangements. 

 

Sometime afterwards we were walking to lunch  along the corridor in The Plant when we overheard rhythmic chanting from the Boil in the Bag Driver's course next door, obviously learning some rule or other by rote. 

 

"Listen boys, they're learning their DOO Times Table" 

"What's that ?"

"One DOO is £4.12, two DOOs are £8.24..."

 

Thread drift, sorry :-)

[Rivercider]

On 11/04/2024 at 19:49, Wickham Green too said:

How many piped vehicles survived at that time without having gained 'proper' vac-brakes ? ...... I've certainly never heard of a VANPIPE or similar coding !

When I joined BR in 1977 the WR civil engineers had no bogie rail carrying vehicles with vacuum brakes, (or air brakes either). A few of the Sturgeons were vac piped code YBP, likewise a few of the Ganes were piped code YLP, and some of the Salmons were piped code YMP. 

 

cheers

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

... except, of course when said brake van(s) had to be conveyed empty because of an unbalanced working of some sort. ( I won't suggest that the unbalanced guard should have remained with his van ! )

 

I certainly knew plenty of guards, and drivers for that matter, who didn't need to be anywhere near a van or a loco to be unbalanced, one or two were outright psycohotic, and back in those days there was a fairly heavy macho drinking culture to encourage their being unbalanced... Brake van specials were usually worked as unfitted Class 9 trains without the bags connected, and of course an arguably sentient brake operating mechanism in the rear van.