The Dean brake tricomposite and brake composite (and Slips too) appreciation thread

[drduncan]

@Andy Keane @Brassey the TNA series is Rail 938.

 

When using the TNA online search engine Discovery always go straight to the advanced search option - it’s far less painful than battling with the bog standard search options and the dross that it normally throws up. 
 

in this case tell it to search for through coaches in the Rail series and you get 49 results…

Duncan

[drduncan]

On the subject of the composition (see what I did there) of branch formations and whether or not brake tri-comps or brake comps were in use, have a look at the John Lewis articles in the late and lamented GWR Journal- there is an online index that will tell you the issue numbers. Apart from that it’s a case of pouring over photos and using @Penrhos1920 excellent website to help you decipher the formation.

Edited April 28 by drduncan

[Andy Keane]

24 minutes ago, drduncan said:

On the subject of the composition (see what I did there) branch formations and wether or not brake tri-comps or brake comps were in use, have a look at the John Lewis articles in the late and lamented GWR Journal- there is an online index that will tell you the issue numbers. Apart from that it’s a case of pouring over photos and using @Penrhos1920 excellent website to help you decipher the formation.

I have a set of those and had not thought to look - duh! I will see what is there.

[drduncan]

2 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

I have a set of those and had not thought to look - duh! I will see what is there.

Don’t get your hopes to high for a detailed look at the Cornish branch lines. Most of the surviving material that John had access to related to the London and Birmingham districts.  That said, the articles are excellent and will help you understand the process. 
D

[Andy Keane]

9 hours ago, drduncan said:

@Andy Keane @Brassey the TNA series is Rail 938.

 

When using the TNA online search engine Discovery always go straight to the advanced search option - it’s far less painful than battling with the bog standard search options and the dross that it normally throws up. 
 

in this case tell it to search for through coaches in the Rail series and you get 49 results…

Duncan

Of course the real issue with TNA is you cannot really tell from catalogue entries wether the actual material will be of interest. For example they say they hold the signalling and telegraph records for Helston. But as to what these records contain I have no idea. Might they be the signalbox registers for example? Ditto the working timetables. I will have to go and look someday.

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Andy Keane said:

Of course the real issue with TNA is you cannot really tell from catalogue entries wether the actual material will be of interest. 

 

I've found the efficient way to deal with this is to book something that you know will be of interests along with the thing that only might be of interest. Look at the speculative stuff first; if it turns out not to be interesting you've got the rest of the day to work on the definitely interesting stuff. But I have the advantage that I'm only 90 minutes away by stopping train, so it's not too big an expense.

[drduncan]

2 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Of course the real issue with TNA is you cannot really tell from catalogue entries wether the actual material will be of interest. 

My approach to archival research (and it’s a way of life due to the day job) is that each search has a positive outcome. You either positively know that the material you seek is not in the piece/series/archive you are visiting, so you can cross it off and look elsewhere. Or you find part or all of what you are looking for. Either way, in research terms, it’s a win.

 

[Also take a digital camera- photograph everything that is the slightest interest and do the whole file… that way you can analyse your finds at home, maximise productivity in the rare archive visits and above all, not find out that that the last few pages you thought weren’t needed actually had stuff that on reconsideration would have been useful!]
 

Duncan

[Brassey]

@Andy KeaneThere is a WTT here that covers the Helston Branch:

 

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=631

Edited April 28 by Brassey

[Brassey]

Here's a couple of examples of local diagrams for reference.  These are from the Birkenhead Joint Line which actually runs close to where I live.

 

In the first there is no info on the GW formation but a break compo was attached for Euston which presumably would have been an LNWR vehicle.

 

The second has more detail including a Saloon and Milk Van that were attached daily to trains in both direction!

 

[Compound2632]

These have less detail than the Midland carriage marshalling books, which have enough information that one can usually identify the carriage diagrams - per the example posted above.

[Brassey]

On 21/04/2024 at 09:51, Brassey said:

Here's another photo of GWR carriage at Lime Street that I put on FB to try to identify.  This looks like a slip but quite what a slip is doing at Lime Street one wonders.  IIRC a functioning slip would have reservoirs on the roof.  This hasn't but it could be something like a Falmouth Coupe which had windows in the end but got slip apparatus later.  There was no slipping on the LNWR and we'll never know why it got to Lime Street but maybe that's why it was photographed.  Anyway I've got an excuse to build one now.

 

Someone in the know has confirmed this as an E39/Falmouth Coupe. They were later slip fitted but not when this was taken. 

[drduncan]

Today I started on the CAD for the broad gauge version of the 40ft E6 brake tricomposite. 
 

On the basis that one can never have too many brake tricomposite or brake composites, once I I’ve exhausted the 40 ft CAA12B options I’ll attack the E25 double coupe brake comp - it ran on a BG under frame prior to 1892.

 

D

[Andy Keane]

What about the E19s that sometimes ran as a kind of early B set?

[drduncan]

The E19 cad is finished and it prints satisfactorily except the roof which sometimes warps so I’ve added transverse strengthening and need to do a test print. I’m also working out how to best do the windows - or indeed how not to do them. 
D

[drduncan]

BTW that’s for the oil lamp lit version. The 2 different gas lit types need more work. 
D

[Andy Keane]

I have wondered about how one might merge etched sides into the rest being printed - have you thought about a hybrid coach build at all?

[Schooner]

A printed carcass, to match the real framing, possibly even with interior panneling/detailing, which may aid rigidity, and some gel CA glue would seem a good fit?

 

The etches, not being structural, could then be in thinner metal, which may aid relief detail and keep vehicle weight down - potentially useful for these shorter coaches, which I won't be alone in liking for being able to run more of, with the greater number of axles and axle drag per rake. Cost also, presumably?

 

Just a thought, no relevent experience :)

[magmouse]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

The etches, not being structural, could then be in thinner metal

 

Ideally, the thickness of the material for the etch is determined by the scale thickness of the panelling mouldings, since the relief of the panelling is just over half the thickness of the material - usually 3/8th inch on the prototype. In 4mm scale that is 5 thou, so 10 though brass would be best, or 18 thou in 7mm scale.I am not sure how that relates to typical kit-makers' practice.

 

Nick.

[drduncan]

I think the problem will be preventing handling damage with thin section brass sheet, (think of images of a modern warship where you can see the dishing of the hull plates between the frames) nor will it give you scale thickness for the sides overall - depending on how your coach is constructed. Those using multiple laminations of plasticard cut with a silhouette cutter or similar are probably closer to scale thickness than an etched brass side. And you’d have to get the sides etched (time and money) and to to the same tolerances you print at to make sure they are a good fit - not impossible but time consuming. I also suspect it will be more expensive than a printed body shell. So a long answer to say it’s not something I’m considering doing at the moment.

D

[Andy Keane]

41 minutes ago, drduncan said:

I think the problem will be preventing handling damage with thin section brass sheet, (think of images of a modern warship where you can see the dishing of the hull plates between the frames) nor will it give you scale thickness for the sides overall - depending on how your coach is constructed. Those using multiple laminations of plasticard cut with a silhouette cutter or similar are probably closer to scale thickness than an etched brass side. And you’d have to get the sides etched (time and money) and to to the same tolerances you print at to make sure they are a good fit - not impossible but time consuming. I also suspect it will be more expensive than a printed body shell. So a long answer to say it’s not something I’m considering doing at the moment.

D

I was rather thinking on how I might combine your E19 with etches from Worseley Works for example?