Newbie advice please

[TrainsTim]

Hi all,

First post here.

So I am obviously thinking about a layout.  Very early thoughts. It will be in the loft so space is not an issue. I think OO would be my best option? I am an (ex) pro woodworker, now a Design Technology Teacher so I am very confident skills wise in both modelling and electronics.  So why would I not have a model railway?😉

I want to spend a good amount of time thinking about and planning the layout which I  kind of see as the most important  bit of it all. I have some vague ideas about a 50's/60's steam and diesel set up with a loop and a branch or two and perhaps a shed leading into the loop(s). I Like the idea of modelling a station on one that is known to me.  

So very very early days but I would welcome any advice. 

Specifically  I would welcome advice regarding track, is it a good idea to look for used? Which type/make? Ive been looking at "job lots" on Ebay and wondering.

I guess control type is a way away now but I can already see the benefits of digital.

Many thanks in advance

Tim

[TonyMay]

Space is *always* an issue, even in lofts.

 

1950s-1960s steam and diesel outline models are readily available in RTR in both OO and N.  For modelling earlier time periods it's more difficult to get representative models, unless it's GWR.  It's probably best to choose a region of BR and focus on that.  Where in the country are you?

 

You want to be using Peco Streamline track (00 or N), code 75 for modern models in 00.  Code 55 for N.  Peco bullhead rail might be best if you want realism, but the regular H0 stuff is OK.

 

Second hand flexitrack is probably OK.  A lot of people buy model railway stuff and then don't use it.  Turnouts have a limited life, and sometimes second hand turnouts might not be in the best condition if they've been used.

 

 

[Harlequin]

Hi Tim,

Is your loft insulated, draught-proofed and boarded?

Do you have open space or is it full of roof trusses?

Are the ceiling joists strong enough to support the extra weight that you might put up there?

 

Edited April 30 by Harlequin

[TrainsTim]

2 minutes ago, TonyMay said:

Space is *always* an issue, even in lofts.

 

1950s-1960s steam and diesel outline models are readily available in RTR in both OO and N.  For modelling earlier time periods it's more difficult to get representative models, unless it's GWR.  It's probably best to choose a region of BR and focus on that.  Where in the country are you?

 

You want to be using Peco Streamline track (00 or N), code 75 for modern models in 00.  Code 55 for N.  Peco bullhead rail might be best if you want realism, but the regular H0 stuff is OK.

 

Second hand flexitrack is probably OK.  A lot of people buy model railway stuff and then don't use it.  Turnouts have a limited life, and sometimes second hand turnouts might not be in the best condition if they've been used.

Thanks, I am in NW Kent

 

 

[TrainsTim]

2 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Tim,

Is your loft insulated, draught-proofed and boarded?

Do you have open space or is is full of roof trusses?

Are the ceiling joists strong enough to support the extra weight that you might put up there?

 

Hi

Its boarded but I still need to insulate under the roof. (early days still) Its more open than in modern roofs and weight wise it will be less than all the "stuff" that is in it now!  There is easily 12x6 feet available and probably more.

[YT-1300]

I would recommend building a small test layout to get used to how different materials work together (glues, track, electrics, wood, ballast, scenics, control and time) and sizes of various items of stock and structures before committing to a full loft affair.  You could do this in 00 and N, or even TT120

 

Peco Code 75 (or 55 in N) streamline track is probably your best bet, set-track can of course be used, through you will be limited in geometry.  Buying flexi track used is a good idea, though I'd avoid used point work unless you plan to modify them for extra reliability.

 

Before laying any track, think about DC or DCC control, and how you want to control your points

 

 

 

 

[TrainsTim]

9 minutes ago, YT-1300 said:

I would recommend building a small test layout to get used to how different materials work together (glues, track, electrics, wood, ballast, scenics, control and time) and sizes of various items of stock and structures before committing to a full loft affair.  You could do this in 00 and N, or even TT120

 

Peco Code 75 (or 55 in N) streamline track is probably your best bet, set-track can of course be used, through you will be limited in geometry.  Buying flexi track used is a good idea, though I'd avoid used point work unless you plan to modify them for extra reliability.

 

Before laying any track, think about DC or DCC control, and how you want to control your points

 

Hi, Thank you

Yes I did think about getting a few bits of track perhaps a small loop and a loco to get a feel for things. 

 

9 minutes ago, YT-1300 said:

 

 

 

Edited April 30 by TrainsTim

[Harlequin]

21 minutes ago, TrainsTim said:

Hi

Its boarded but I still need to insulate under the roof. (early days still) Its more open than in modern roofs and weight wise it will be less than all the "stuff" that is in it now!

Sounds good.

 

21 minutes ago, TrainsTim said:

There is easily 12x6 feet available and probably more.

Is that at floor level or at layout level?

 

I'm throwing these questions at you to establish the basic parameters. 🙂

 

[Hibelroad]

Whatever you build the chances are you will learn a lot in a short time and soon decide that your layout is all wrong and you need to start again, so don’t invest too much time and money in your first attempt. Set track helps as it’s easy to reconfigure and can be used in non scenic areas later. As regards an era many modellers tend to try and recreate the railways of their youth, or you may drawn to a particular period in history. Whatever you do remember to have fun, you don’t need to follow what others do if it doesn’t suit you. 

[TrainsTim]

17 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Sounds good.

 

Is that at floor level or at layout level?

 

I'm throwing these questions at you to establish the basic parameters. 🙂

 

Yes, the level vs area I still need to properly ascertain. I think it will be at a slightly low table height (say 650) as it were but definitely not floor.  

[TrainsTim]

What do you guys think about a "set" just to get a few early bits? so as suggested above I can begin getting a feel for things by creating a very small initial layout, make some basic scenery etc to practice?... a simple loop, a loco and a carriage or two?

If so are there any suggestions for a steam set up like this?  I like the idea of a 50's 60's set up. 

Looking at a few videos, I'm pretty sure I would want digital control so also wondering which one would be best for me? 

Like this maybe?  It says it would need a new CD?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125740052141?itmmeta=01HWQFFRNRM8T69QQX5204B3MD&hash=item1d46b0eead:g:nGUAAOSwVFdj061k&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4I4GUt9TsHN9RSErtJakiLK09dgauWJqWB17SgnicT5R0WPmO1OV87X94ZnQiGvY43TYs0DTTSgUKe0y1Ab4bYhHbt%2BunkZwGt2aAcNOmOWUYtp%2B3PXoEpB1aalYGyVuTx6P7AMypRk0DqKLmy6m7kLl%2BgLLH1wHArG%2B3OwKIJiiNBVmibl2Qr0%2B1FSFFlJqn66UJ%2B9Mwvh%2BvquJsBtMcZdv9ImuCRi8EOYQLuDrc9RbF5H0uvAlA6oKIZ2481NJa1RfMVQDWhztYVl9KESKQfTyNX6xeFi5C3VAa%2BptL3SE|tkp%3ABk9SR_qKv-_lYw

 

Edited April 30 by TrainsTim

[The Johnster]

I had a loft layout in my teens, loft conversion by Buffalo Bill Enterprises PLC aka my dad.  it eventually tore itself to pieces because of the temperature range; sub-zero F (it felt like sub-zero Kelvin) in winter, oven in summer.  You cannot spend too much on insulation or proper ventilation and I would seriously reccommend a professional conversion.

 

Have a think about what you want from your layout.  This could be one or a combination or all of several things; do you like building scenery and buildings, do you like watching the trains go round, do you like shunting and realistic operation, do you want fast long expresses or will two-coach branch line trains suffice?

 

There is a trade-off in attic layouts between comfort, an important consideration if you are going to be spending a lot of time operating or watching trains go round, and space.  Most layouts are built at around table or desk level, which is reasonably comfortable for operating and viewing purposes, but in a loft, because of the tapering roof, you get more space the lower you build your baseboards, but your back will pay for it.

 

I personally would not reccommend a train set to start with; you will very quickly become tired of the limited possibilities for operating and the enforced shortness of the tailchasing trains.  Expanding it with the Hornby trackmats and the plan book will lead to you building unrealistic and sometimes unfeasible track plans; these things are designed to sell track.  Also, it limits you to setrack curves and track geometry, with is unrealistic in appearance.  I'll come back to curvature in a minute.  My view is that it is better to start with baseboards no more than two feet wide, that you can reach across easily, and which can be built around the outside of the available area.  It sounds like you could build a single baseboard area of about 10x4 feet, but you would need access all around this as 4 feet is too far to reach across.  Don't forget that when you reach across a layout, you are reaching over the top of delicate models that are easily damaged.

 

Adopt a track standard before you start and keep to it.  For a 50s/60s layout the best is probably Peco code 75, available in chaired or clipped appearance, but it is a little delicate and you might be better off with Code 100 to begin with.  Problem is that Code 100 is not available in chaired form.  These are flexible track systems and curves can be laid to any radius you want; your models will run better on larger radius curves which also look more realistic.  Curves are very much a compromise, and a 4' radius, fairly large in modelling terms, would, if scaled up to full size, carry a severe speed restriction.  Radius 1 setrack, 15inches, would not be used on a main line railway, even in sidings, but may be found in factory or dockland systems.  Peco points, turnouts, are available in fixed radii, small 2', medium 30", and large 36".

 

There are basic types of layout that can be summarised as follows:-

 

.'Roundy roundy', continuous run circuits with a station/yard and scenery on one side and a hidden fiddle yard on the other.  A fiddle yard is a set of hidden sidings or loops which can be regarded as 'off stage', where you fiddle with the trains, taking them off and putting them on the track.  A train leaves the fiddle yard, runs through the station stopping if you want it to, then re-enters the fy, then another one repeats the performance.  Versatile, as you can run the trains continuously if you want to, and shunt the yard while a train is circulating.  Good if you want express trains or a passing loop station on a single track main line.

 

.BLT, branch line terminus.  Fy to terminus, all trains have to be reversed, usually by running the loco around to the other end, before they leave for the 'junction', the fy.  Good if you like shunting and complex movements, and has the advantage that it needs less space (or, conversely, has more room for scenery) than the roundy roundy.

 

.Industrial/docks/harbour/colliery/quarry/cement works.  Similar to the BLT, but much more focussed on shunting, the thing for you if you like tight curvarture and industrial buildings with small engines.  Can be achieved in a very limited space, or as big as you like.  In this case I actually recommend setrack, as flexi does not like being forced into the curvature required.

 

.Shunting problem.  Modelling combined with a mathematical/logic problem; the idea is that a randomly formed train has to be shunted out into a specific formation or wagons delivered to specific positions in the minimum possible number of movements according to the rules.  Absolutely absorbing and a superb diversion from real life, hence very relaxing.  All shunting operation contain an element of this of course.  The classic is the deceptively simple 3-siding 'Inglenook', with sidings of 3, 4, and 5 wagons capacity respectively and a headshunt capable of taking the loco and 3 wagons; there are something like 150.000 possible combinations apparently.

 

The time to adopt digital (DCC) control is before you start buying locomotives, as it rapidly becomes expensive to convert if you don't.  This to some extent precludes you buying older secondhand locos, even some from the noughties of this century, as retrofitting DCC to them is not always easy.  In fact I would advise a newbie to stay away from eBay anyway until you have developed the knowledge to distinguish older models from current ones, loco drives from tender drives, &c.  A very rough guide would be that, if it has an NEM style coupling, it'll probably be ok...

 

RTR models deze daze are very good indeed, to scale, well detailed, and good runners, but there are some dogs out there to avoid.  Don't buy 7-plank or 16ton minerals from Hornby or Dapol (or any make secondhand) as the wheelbase is an incorrect generic 10' where it should be 9'; the body panels are stretched to fit so you can't replace the underframe with the correct one.  The 2721 pannier in the train set is another dog, hopelessly out of scale; it is no longer in the catalogue but still turns up in trainsets sometimes.  Hornby's Railroad 0-4-0s, Dapol's cattle wagons and Fruit D, Bachmann's LMS vans and cattle wagon inherited from older companies, and many others are out of scale and therefore irredeemble; avoid.

 

Especially avoid 2h Mainline locos.  These were well scaled and good models in their day, but sadly the components for the split-chassis pickup mechanisms are poorly designed and of poor quality; any in running condition will fail fairly shortly.

 

And, welcome to the Insanity hobby, good luck and let us know how you are getting on.  Plenty knowledgeable folk here to answer your questions and suggest things.  Above all, have fun with it!

[Harlequin]

6 hours ago, TrainsTim said:

What do you guys think about a "set" just to get a few early bits? so as suggested above I can begin getting a feel for things by creating a very small initial layout, make some basic scenery etc to practice?... a simple loop, a loco and a carriage or two?

If so are there any suggestions for a steam set up like this?  I like the idea of a 50's 60's set up. 

Looking at a few videos, I'm pretty sure I would want digital control so also wondering which one would be best for me? 

Like this maybe?  It says it would need a new CD?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125740052141?itmmeta=01HWQFFRNRM8T69QQX5204B3MD&hash=item1d46b0eead:g:nGUAAOSwVFdj061k&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4I4GUt9TsHN9RSErtJakiLK09dgauWJqWB17SgnicT5R0WPmO1OV87X94ZnQiGvY43TYs0DTTSgUKe0y1Ab4bYhHbt%2BunkZwGt2aAcNOmOWUYtp%2B3PXoEpB1aalYGyVuTx6P7AMypRk0DqKLmy6m7kLl%2BgLLH1wHArG%2B3OwKIJiiNBVmibl2Qr0%2B1FSFFlJqn66UJ%2B9Mwvh%2BvquJsBtMcZdv9ImuCRi8EOYQLuDrc9RbF5H0uvAlA6oKIZ2481NJa1RfMVQDWhztYVl9KESKQfTyNX6xeFi5C3VAa%2BptL3SE|tkp%3ABk9SR_qKv-_lYw

 

 

Not worth it. The track is horrible Hornby Setrack, the loco and rolling stock are all from decades old moulds ("tooling") and you'll throw the controller away as soon as you know what you're doing. (I think the CD is part of the licensing system for downloading the software.)

 

Much better to buy some Peco track and turnouts, a small loco that you really want for your chosen region/era and a simple controller - things that you could re-use in your layout. There are various DCC starter systems. Have a look at the DCC questions forum and search for "starter" or similar keywords to see what people think of them.

 

BTW: The radii for straight Peco Streamline OO/HO turnouts are small = 24", medium = 36" and large = nominal 48" (but in reality is about 45"), not what the Johnster said. Curved and Y turnouts have different radii again.

 

 

Edit: P.S. Don't feel you have to buy "DCC Fitted" locos because very often a decoder you fit yourself will be better than those fitted by the manufacturer. A Design Technology Teacher such as yourself will have no trouble in fitting a decoder into a loco.

 

Edited April 30 by Harlequin

[The Johnster]

My apologies for my incorrect radius information regarding Peco Streamline turnout radii.  

[DCB]

Generally a loft layout is the type with central operating well and round the 4 walls or linear with a long thin end to end layout with operating space to one side.    My first one 62 years ago had a solid 6 X 4 board against the  roof slope and I had to climb on to it if trains stalled  at the far side.
"Table" solid baseboard 6X4 etc layouts are not a good use of loft space.

An unobstructed space of 6 X 12 is relatively rare in a loft.    Mine has about  8 X 9  between the supports which reach up  to brace the roof  at around 3ft 6" above the floor, so that was  my Datum, there was 3ft  beyond the supports one end and 1ft the other end so about 12  X  9 at waist height  coming in to around  12 X 7 or 12 X 6  which  made working at the back awkward.    It was  never finished apart from 4 storage loops and 4 long sidings off a single track oval which was very useful for running in locos. and hiding many cubic feet of junk
It was very difficult to access,  Up a retractable loft ladder which eft a big hole to fall down in the middle of the operating area, or I could take away the ladder and be trapped when the trap door was lowered.   It  was  noisy for people downstairs ,  un usable  when people , My son mainly were sleeping.
I think something like "Sams Trains"  floor level "layout . or   low level 12" or 18" above floor  Level  layouts would be worth considering if your loft is like Sams'

 

Edited April 30 by DCB

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, DCB said:

"Table" solid baseboard 6X4 etc layouts are not a good use of loft space.

 

I would contend that 6x4 solid baseboard is not a good use of any space.  The idea is usually that they can be mounted on a table top and put away when not being used, but they are heavy and awkward things that are physically hard work to move, especially when one side of them is covered by delicate models and scenery.  They are a spectacularly awkward shape for a realistic layout; most real railways are long and thin...

[EasternO]

It would be good to start with an accurate dimensioned plan of the space you have available at baseboard height, making a note of access, restricted roof heights, joists, trusses and purlins, etc. You can then make multiple copies of this plan to draw in several permutations of layout designs, or post it here to get designs produced for you. I know, for example, that Harlequin produces fantastic designs, but he's not the only one.

 

Any ultimate layout doesn't have to be bought and laid all at once. You could start with a loop around the loft, or a small yard/station area, and add in extensions when time and finances allow. It would give you time to determine what you'd like to have, and more importantly, what you'd not like. It also wouldn't end up costing you any more as you can likely use the track you've bought elsewhere. Once you're happy you can start fixing it in place and adding scenery.

[DCB]

One thing which gets missed is viewing points,  Heritage power units, both DC pre 1980 and DCC pre 2022 tend to be desk based  giving one sitting or standing position for the operator, that can be exploited with perspective modelling.   Modern DCC mobile phone based, and wander lead DC means you can wander at will around watching from various view points and indeed operating points manually.    The best view points on our railway are only possible using a small camera, either stills or video jammed in a corner, but some pretty good ones are looking along the terminus approach  and the curve where the line swings away from the wall towards the main panel approaching the terminus where the trains are viewed head on.    Just a thought. 

[TrainsTim]

18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I had a loft layout in my teens, loft conversion by Buffalo Bill Enterprises PLC aka my dad.  it eventually tore itself to pieces because of the temperature range; sub-zero F (it felt like sub-zero Kelvin) in winter, oven in summer.  You cannot spend too much on insulation or proper ventilation and I would seriously reccommend a professional conversion.

 

Have a think about what you want from your layout.  This could be one or a combination or all of several things; do you like building scenery and buildings, do you like watching the trains go round, do you like shunting and realistic operation, do you want fast long expresses or will two-coach branch line trains suffice?

 

There is a trade-off in attic layouts between comfort, an important consideration if you are going to be spending a lot of time operating or watching trains go round, and space.  Most layouts are built at around table or desk level, which is reasonably comfortable for operating and viewing purposes, but in a loft, because of the tapering roof, you get more space the lower you build your baseboards, but your back will pay for it.

 

I personally would not reccommend a train set to start with; you will very quickly become tired of the limited possibilities for operating and the enforced shortness of the tailchasing trains.  Expanding it with the Hornby trackmats and the plan book will lead to you building unrealistic and sometimes unfeasible track plans; these things are designed to sell track.  Also, it limits you to setrack curves and track geometry, with is unrealistic in appearance.  I'll come back to curvature in a minute.  My view is that it is better to start with baseboards no more than two feet wide, that you can reach across easily, and which can be built around the outside of the available area.  It sounds like you could build a single baseboard area of about 10x4 feet, but you would need access all around this as 4 feet is too far to reach across.  Don't forget that when you reach across a layout, you are reaching over the top of delicate models that are easily damaged.

 

Adopt a track standard before you start and keep to it.  For a 50s/60s layout the best is probably Peco code 75, available in chaired or clipped appearance, but it is a little delicate and you might be better off with Code 100 to begin with.  Problem is that Code 100 is not available in chaired form.  These are flexible track systems and curves can be laid to any radius you want; your models will run better on larger radius curves which also look more realistic.  Curves are very much a compromise, and a 4' radius, fairly large in modelling terms, would, if scaled up to full size, carry a severe speed restriction.  Radius 1 setrack, 15inches, would not be used on a main line railway, even in sidings, but may be found in factory or dockland systems.  Peco points, turnouts, are available in fixed radii, small 2', medium 30", and large 36".

 

There are basic types of layout that can be summarised as follows:-

 

.'Roundy roundy', continuous run circuits with a station/yard and scenery on one side and a hidden fiddle yard on the other.  A fiddle yard is a set of hidden sidings or loops which can be regarded as 'off stage', where you fiddle with the trains, taking them off and putting them on the track.  A train leaves the fiddle yard, runs through the station stopping if you want it to, then re-enters the fy, then another one repeats the performance.  Versatile, as you can run the trains continuously if you want to, and shunt the yard while a train is circulating.  Good if you want express trains or a passing loop station on a single track main line.

 

.BLT, branch line terminus.  Fy to terminus, all trains have to be reversed, usually by running the loco around to the other end, before they leave for the 'junction', the fy.  Good if you like shunting and complex movements, and has the advantage that it needs less space (or, conversely, has more room for scenery) than the roundy roundy.

 

.Industrial/docks/harbour/colliery/quarry/cement works.  Similar to the BLT, but much more focussed on shunting, the thing for you if you like tight curvarture and industrial buildings with small engines.  Can be achieved in a very limited space, or as big as you like.  In this case I actually recommend setrack, as flexi does not like being forced into the curvature required.

 

.Shunting problem.  Modelling combined with a mathematical/logic problem; the idea is that a randomly formed train has to be shunted out into a specific formation or wagons delivered to specific positions in the minimum possible number of movements according to the rules.  Absolutely absorbing and a superb diversion from real life, hence very relaxing.  All shunting operation contain an element of this of course.  The classic is the deceptively simple 3-siding 'Inglenook', with sidings of 3, 4, and 5 wagons capacity respectively and a headshunt capable of taking the loco and 3 wagons; there are something like 150.000 possible combinations apparently.

 

The time to adopt digital (DCC) control is before you start buying locomotives, as it rapidly becomes expensive to convert if you don't.  This to some extent precludes you buying older secondhand locos, even some from the noughties of this century, as retrofitting DCC to them is not always easy.  In fact I would advise a newbie to stay away from eBay anyway until you have developed the knowledge to distinguish older models from current ones, loco drives from tender drives, &c.  A very rough guide would be that, if it has an NEM style coupling, it'll probably be ok...

 

RTR models deze daze are very good indeed, to scale, well detailed, and good runners, but there are some dogs out there to avoid.  Don't buy 7-plank or 16ton minerals from Hornby or Dapol (or any make secondhand) as the wheelbase is an incorrect generic 10' where it should be 9'; the body panels are stretched to fit so you can't replace the underframe with the correct one.  The 2721 pannier in the train set is another dog, hopelessly out of scale; it is no longer in the catalogue but still turns up in trainsets sometimes.  Hornby's Railroad 0-4-0s, Dapol's cattle wagons and Fruit D, Bachmann's LMS vans and cattle wagon inherited from older companies, and many others are out of scale and therefore irredeemble; avoid.

 

Especially avoid 2h Mainline locos.  These were well scaled and good models in their day, but sadly the components for the split-chassis pickup mechanisms are poorly designed and of poor quality; any in running condition will fail fairly shortly.

 

And, welcome to the Insanity hobby, good luck and let us know how you are getting on.  Plenty knowledgeable folk here to answer your questions and suggest things.  Above all, have fun with it!

Thank  you for  a  most  comprehensive reply.  Many  helpful  points  and  I  definitely  feel  more  confident  in  what  to  look  for now.  

[RobinofLoxley]

Something to think about Tim is whether you are a modeller or an operator. Opening remarks make me think you might be more inclined towards modelling on which case you need to give plenty of consideration to location as within your mentioned era quite  lot disappeared. 

 

[TrainsTim]

Thanks to everyone for  your very informative responses.  Ive  already learnt  a  lot in a short space of time.   

I've had a proper measure now and I have easily got 14x8 feet (and easily a fair bit more for at least a FY  etc).  This is at at table height. Most likely in a U or E formation with (say) 2 feet from front to back to allow for access.  I'm as interested in scenery and history as anything else so this should be a good space to develop over a good period of time.  

As  I mentioned  I  am in the early stages but  I  now feel  happy  to start  looking  at some Peco flexitrack and a nice  60's loco and some rolling stock and start the process quite slowly with a very small experimental layout....  Ive  got  to  wait at least 3 months before I can start proper building anyway but I think that will be a bonus in the long run.

Im going to start looking at DCC control so will check back for more advice on that soon.

Cheers

Tim

[TrainsTim]

24 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Something to think about Tim is whether you are a modeller or an operator. Opening remarks make me think you might be more inclined towards modelling on which case you need to give plenty of consideration to location as within your mentioned era quite  lot disappeared. 

 

Yes , you  are  right,  Scenery and history are of equal interest to me  (I quite like trains as well!☺️)

I would like to create a  1960's Welsh mix with colliery scenes and  hopefully to model the lake Bala narrow gauge  station Llanuwchllyn within the overall layout which I'm thinking can be done in 009 gauge?

Ambitious ideas maybe but something to aim at! 

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, TrainsTim said:

Ive  got  to  wait at least 3 months before I can start proper building anyway but I think that will be a bonus in the long run.

 

It will; the more research and thinking you do now the better your layout will be and the less money you will spend on things you only thought you wanted. 

 

Collieries and narrow-gauge are a seductive mix but not particularly common on (or in) the ground.  Many South Wales collieries had narrow gauge tramway systemd and some had low-profile battery locos to work underground, but anything beyond hand, horse, or cable traction was rare at the surface.  A narrow gauge railway in the sense of the Ffestiniog, Talyllyn, Corris, Glyn Valley &c is usually connected with a slate quarry, and the geology of Wales does not allow slate quarries and collieries to exist close to each other.  Those sort of railways were/are overwhelmingly associated with transhipment and passenger transfer at stations on the Cambrian line, and to a lesser extent the LNWR. Collieries did not use the sort of small steam engines used by Slate quarries. 

 

However, in case nobody else has, I will now introduce you to Rule 1, The Supreme Rule that all other rules are subservient to and to which reference is always made in any case of doubt.  Rule 1 states 'It's my train set and I'll run what I like'.  It is a complex matter, but we all respect it; complex becuase it is a tricksy thing, like all freedoms.  Overuse/abuse will let your layout devolve into a train set, and we don't like trainsets masquerading as model railways because it erodes the seriousness with which we take ourselves.  A train set should be honest and upfront about what it is, and respected for what it is, which is not a model railway. The boundary between a train set and a model railway is never clearly defined, but we all know what we mean by it and all of us have different parameters for said boundary.  With great freedom comes great responsibility.

[Jabee]

On 30/04/2024 at 11:46, TrainsTim said:

Hi

Its boarded but I still need to insulate under the roof. (early days still) Its more open than in modern roofs and weight wise it will be less than all the "stuff" that is in it now!  There is easily 12x6 feet available and probably more.

Be careful. Modern roof trusses are designed to carry the weight of the roof (plus snow loading) on the upper chords and the weight of the top floor ceiling from the bottom chord. Boarding out for storage is ok but ongoing use as a 'hobby' space may stress the floor and compromise the integrity of the trusses (look at the difference in size when comparing the timbers in the roof trusses to the floor joists for the upstairs level. Also make sure you retain an air gap for ventilation when installing your insulation. A velux type window is also a good idea.

When considering this myself, I decided to have the space converted for me using steel C beams tied to the floor and roof chords, tied together at the apex with the inner trusses removed. All by an approved contractor, designed by a structural engineer and subject to full building control and inspection. They also installed the Velux windows for me.

[Jabee]

You also need to be happy that anything you do does not compromise your house insurance cover!