Bristol & South Wales Freightliner traffic 1970s

[mabel]

As the title. Can anyone help provide details on the Freightliner workings and the box types / liveries for trains to Bristol flt and South Wales in the early 70s? I have scoured the net for months on and off, plus bought Life & Times of Freightliner book and come up with next to nothing. There are some snippets on RMWeb but no great detail. Photos would be fantastic, or be pointed in the direction of publicised pics / books / mags what have you. As well as box types and liveries I am after information and pictures of loads in open containers. How were they loaded, secured and sheeted? Did Ford have dry boxes or curtain side containers (for South Wales)and how many ford boxes to a train?
Where non ISO and ISO containers included on the same trains? I did find a photo on the web of a container crane that could lift both types of boxes but can't find it again for the life of me. Typical....

Thanks in advance

Tony

 

Edited May 14 by mabel
Title edit from @ to &

[Mol_PMB]

A search on Flickr for 'margam freightliner' produces a very good selection of early 1980s Freightliner photos but I admit none from the 1970s. They do however show some of the ways that open containers were loaded and secured, such as this photo from Jamerail:

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

I can have a look in my late 1960s and early 1970s copies of 'Jane's Freight Containers' if that might be helpful? Manchester Liners boxes are certainly a valid option.

[mabel]

I had seen that pic before. I'm sure they are Scottish & Newcastle beer kegs if memory serves me right. 
Any info from Janes would be great if you don't mind. I looked at buying a copy on Amazon but they are a bit pricey these days !

Much appreciated 

[Downendian]

I’ve had similar problems trying to find mid 1970s images of Freightliner traffic that passed daily through Bristol Parkway. There are several images on Flickr and the workings in that time frame (that passed through Bristol Parkway) were

4V10 2100 Mossend-Bristol West depot

4V66 0210 Stratford-Danygraig 

4S38 1835/(1855 FO)Bristol West depot-Coatbridge/Sighthill

4E70 1610 Danygraig-Stratford 

 

Those codes help narrow the Flickr searches down a bit. I particularly remember the 4E70 which arrived in Bristol around 8pm, normally banked by a class 37 up from the Severn Tunnel to Stoke Gifford. This train was mainly first generation containers of various shipping lines (I remember Bell and P&O) but Flickr shows others (see below MAT) and open containers which were sheeted. The Bristol FLT services (from memory-not always reliable) were Freightliner branded mostly at least until 1979 when I packed in spotting. Westerns often put in an appearance on the 4E70 and the drone of hard labouring maybachs climbing from Severn Tunnel was a very endearing memory.

heres one from Flickr of 4E70 from transportsteve2011, 1974/5

 

Edited May 14 by Downendian

[BR traction instructor]

Here are some period WTT entries...

 

BeRTIe

 

Edited May 14 by BR traction instructor

[Mol_PMB]

What’s that first wagon, looks like it’s carrying a single 30’ box? 

[Stoke West]

3 minutes ago, Downendian said:

I’ve had similar problems trying to find mid 1970s images of Freightliner traffic that passed daily through Bristol Parkway. There are several images on Flickr and the workings in that time frame were

4V10 2100 Mossend-Bristol West depot

4V66 0210 Stratford-Danygraig 

4S38 1835/(1855 FO)Bristol West depot-Coatbridge/Sighthill

4E70 1610 Danygraig-Stratford 

 

Those codes help narrow the Flickr searches down a bit. I particularly remember the 4E70 which arrived in Bristol around 8pm, normally banked by a class 37 up from the Severn Tunnel to Stoke Gifford. This train was mainly first generation containers of various shipping lines (I remember Bell and P&O) but Flickr shows others (see below MAT) and open containers which were sheeted. The Bristol FLT services (from memory-not always reliable) were Freightliner branded mostly at least until 1979 when I packed in spotting. Westerns often put in an appearance on the 4E70 and the drone of hard labouring maybachs climbing from Severn Tunnel was a very endearing memory.

heres one from Flickr of 4E70 from trabsportsteve2011, pre 1976

 

There was the steel liner from Margam to Park Royal with a portion from Ebbw Vale which joined at 

Stoke Gifford due to weight at around midnight returned lunchtime all empty Lancashire flats ,train split STJ .

[BR traction instructor]

...a few more...

 

BeRTIe

Edited May 14 by BR traction instructor

[Downendian]

1 minute ago, Stoke West said:

There was the steel liner from Margam to Park Royal with a portion from Ebbw Vale which joined at 

Stoke Gifford due to weight at around midnight returned lunchtime all empty Lancashire flats ,train split STJ .

Yes that was not Freightliner traffic though but steel carriers, another frequent Western turn.

[BR traction instructor]

...even more...

 

BeRTIe

 

Edited May 14 by BR traction instructor

[Stoke West]

4 minutes ago, Downendian said:

Yes that was not Freightliner traffic though but steel carriers, another frequent Western turn.

4F63 1005 Park Royal to Margam  freightliner as in WTT above. There was a Pengam to Bell Port and return on the Uskmouth branch for traffic to be  forwarded by services from Pengam class 37 worked

 

5 minutes ago, Downendian said:

Yes that was not Freightliner traffic though but steel carriers, another frequent Western turn.

 

[BR traction instructor]

...a few more Mandatory workings...

 

BeRTIe

Edited May 14 by BR traction instructor

[mabel]

All cracking stuff. Many thanks. 

[markw]

39 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

What’s that first wagon, looks like it’s carrying a single 30’ box? 

It's an FBB

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/freightliner4wheel

[br2975]

To simplify, these are from the 1971-1972 WTT, showing inter-regional services into and out of South Wales.

.

Most, but not all services bound to'/from Danygraig called at Pengam.

.

4V60 01:35 Sheffield – Danygraig

4E66 16:15 Danygraig – Sheffield

 

4V61 23:48 Parkeston Quay – Danygraig  

4E61 13:15 danygraig – Parkeston Quay

 

4V63 17:12 Garston – Danygraig

4M78 01:00 Danygraig – Garston

 

4V64 20:20 Willesden – Danygraig

4M51 21:10 FX Danygraig, 22:54 Sun Cardiff – Willesden.

 

4V66 01:48 Stratford – Danygraig calls Pengam, combines with 4V60

4E70 18:22 Pengam - Stratford

 

4V69 18:56 Trafford Park – Danygraig

4M71 21:10 Danygraig – Trafford Park

 

4V73 16:15 Edinburgh – Pengam

4S88 13:15 Pengam – Edinburgh

 

4V74 05:38 Southampton – Danygraig

4O63 13:00 Danygraig – Southampton

.

.

There were several timetabled workings to move empty sets around South Wales for maintenance, such as

.

4C08 05:10 MO Barry – Danygraig empties

4C09 09:15 MO Margam – Danygraig empties

.

In addition there was a local steel based 'trip' working;

.

4C29 16:10 WO Pengam – Bellport (Newport Uskmouth Branch)

4C32 20:20 WO Bellport (Newport Uskmouth Branch) - Pengam

.

Then there was the more intriguing Steel Liner, which carried steel in open containers, invariably hauled by a 'Western'

.

4B12 22:25 Sun, 22:05 FX Margam – Stoke Gifford ‘Steel Liner’ whence it combined with the following, working forward as

4A19 21:45 Sun,21:55 FX Ebbw Vale – Park Royal ‘Steel Liner’ 

Returning as

4C63 10:40 FO Q Park Royal – Spencer Works / Ebbw Vale ‘Steel Liner’ empties.

which would split at Stoke Gifford going forward as; 

4C15 13:25 FX Stoke Gifford – Margam ‘Steel Liner’ empties.

And

4C63 10:40 FO Q Park Royal – Spencer Works / Ebbw Vale ‘Steel Liner’ empties.

Out of which there was the

4A93 17:30 FO Q Spencer Works – East Usk Jcn. Empty ‘Steel Liner’

Which was the first part of a trip working by empty sets to and from Barry WRD for weekend maintenance.

.

.

.

More interesting was the following proposal by the Cardiff Division management, commencing with the 1969 (October) Winter WTT

.

The 08:00 Paddington-Fishguard Harbour TThSO would pick up Freightliner sets at Llanelli, which have been worked across by the 10:50 ex-Danygraig.

The empty wagons would return on the 13:55 ECS Fishguard – Llanelli from whence they would depart at 15:55 for Danygraig, and on Saturdays to Cardiff, Canton for maintenance.   

By late October this 'mixed train' had not started running, so the following were introduced from;  22nd. October 1969

07:00 Danygraig - Fishguard Harbour TThSO

12:45 Fishguard Harbour - Danygraig TThO

12:45 Fishguard - cardiff Canton SO (maintenance)

Cl.47s were diagrammed for this working.

.

.

Then, for something completely different there's always.....

.

 

Edited May 14 by br2975

[Stoke West]

14 minutes ago, mabel said:

All cracking stuff. Many thanks. 

The Park Royal originally ran to South Lambeth ,  coveying strip steel for Dagenham and Luton/ Dunstable

[br2975]

1 hour ago, mabel said:

As the title. Can anyone help provide details on the Freightliner workings and the box types / liveries for trains to Bristol flt and South Wales in the early 70s?

.

.

If you use Facebook, you may wish to join the "Railways in South Wales" group.

.

There are a number of images, and additional information there relating to Freightliner workings in that area, including lovely green Class 47s with LMS brake coaches for the guard.

.

.

If you choose to join you MUST answer ALL THREE  security questions.

.

If you fail to do so, the admin team (which includes ....me) will bounce your application

.

.

.

1 hour ago, mabel said:

 

 

 

[Stoke West]

26 minutes ago, br2975 said:

To simplify, these are from the 1971-1972 WTT, showing inter-regional services into and out of South Wales.

.

Most, but not all services bound to'/from Danygraig called at Pengam.

.

4V60 01:35 Sheffield – Danygraig

4E66 16:15 Danygraig – Sheffield

 

4V61 23:48 Parkeston Quay – Danygraig  

4E61 13:15 danygraig – Parkeston Quay

 

4V63 17:12 Garston – Danygraig

4M78 01:00 Danygraig – Garston

 

4V64 20:20 Willesden – Danygraig

4M51 21:10 FX Danygraig, 22:54 Sun Cardiff – Willesden.

 

4V66 01:48 Stratford – Danygraig calls Pengam, combines with 4V60

4E70 18:22 Pengam - Stratford

 

4V69 18:56 Trafford Park – Danygraig

4M71 21:10 Danygraig – Trafford Park

 

4V73 16:15 Edinburgh – Pengam

4S88 13:15 Pengam – Edinburgh

 

4V74 05:38 Southampton – Danygraig

4O63 13:00 Danygraig – Southampton

.

.

There were several timetabled workings to move empty sets around South Wales for maintenance, such as

.

4C08 05:10 MO Barry – Danygraig empties

4C09 09:15 MO Margam – Danygraig empties

.

In addition there was a local steel based 'trip' working;

.

4C29 16:10 WO Pengam – Bellport (Newport Uskmouth Branch)

4C32 20:20 WO Bellport (Newport Uskmouth Branch) - Pengam

.

Then there was the more intriguing Steel Liner, which carried steel in open containers, invariably hauled by a 'Western'

.

4B12 22:25 Sun, 22:05 FX Margam – Stoke Gifford ‘Steel Liner’ whence it combined with the following, working forward as

4A19 21:45 Sun,21:55 FX Ebbw Vale – Park Royal ‘Steel Liner’ 

Returning as

4C63 10:40 FO Q Park Royal – Spencer Works / Ebbw Vale ‘Steel Liner’ empties.

which would split at Stoke Gifford going forward as; 

4C15 13:25 FX Stoke Gifford – Margam ‘Steel Liner’ empties.

And

4C63 10:40 FO Q Park Royal – Spencer Works / Ebbw Vale ‘Steel Liner’ empties.

Out of which there was the

4A93 17:30 FO Q Spencer Works – East Usk Jcn. Empty ‘Steel Liner’

Which was the first part of a trip working by empty sets to and from Barry WRD for weekend maintenance.

.

.

.

More interesting was the following proposal by the Cardiff Division management, commencing with the 1969 (October) Winter WTT

.

The 08:00 Paddington-Fishguard Harbour TThSO would pick up Freightliner sets at Llanelli, which have been worked across by the 10:50 ex-Danygraig.

The empty wagons would return on the 13:55 ECS Fishguard – Llanelli from whence they would depart at 15:55 for Danygraig, and on Saturdays to Cardiff, Canton for maintenance.   

By late October this 'mixed train' had not started running, so the following were introduced from;  22nd. October 1969

07:00 Danygraig - Fishguard Harbour TThSO

12:45 Fishguard Harbour - Danygraig TThO

12:45 Fishguard - cardiff Canton SO (maintenance)

Cl.47s were diagrammed for this working.

.

.

Then, for something completely different there's always.....

.

 

Apologies getting trunk and connection mixed on steeliner , remember Stoke Gifford shunters getting instruction on the liner wagons on the air brakes  which were individual and not in fixed sets . Thats a good shot of a Pantyffynnon 68

[mabel]

Here is a cracking photo found on Flickr of a nearly new class 50 on a liner train to London. Noteworthy are the early Freightliner curtain side containers at 3rd and 6th position behind the locomotive. This is the only colour photograph I have seen of these containers. There are some b&w photos on Paul Bartletts excellent site. The curtains look almost rail blue to my eyes. Did they have a red stripe to match the other Freightliner boxes? It would appear from Pauls photos that the stripe was there as was the Freightliner branding, but I don't know what colour it was. 

photo credit KDH archives.

[mabel]

3 hours ago, br2975 said:

.

.

If you use Facebook, you may wish to join the "Railways in South Wales" group.

.

There are a number of images, and additional information there relating to Freightliner workings in that area, including lovely green Class 47s with LMS brake coaches for the guard.

.

.

If you choose to join you MUST answer ALL THREE  security questions.

.

If you fail to do so, the admin team (which includes ....me) will bounce your application

.

.

.

 

Thanks for the offer, but I don't use Facebook. 

[mabel]

4 hours ago, Downendian said:

Yes that was not Freightliner traffic though but steel carriers, another frequent Western turn.

Were the steel carriers the early 20' open containers? Like the type Triang produced. 

[Downendian]

3 hours ago, mabel said:

Were the steel carriers the early 20' open containers? Like the type Triang produced. 

I’d never considered this (the steel liner) a Freightliner working, but working time tables suggest differently. I know you said you don’t do Facebook, but the railways in South Wales group (RiSW) is worth alone  joining Facebook for. As always, photos of the steel liner are rare but on the RiSW group there are indeed photos of Freightliner flats with opens (as per Tri-ang product) being used, but by 1974 there’s a shot of D1040 at Aberbeeg on the 4C63 @br2975 mentions, Brian says they’re 21T plate and 42T boplate wagons, you can clearly make out a Boplate. I’d always assumed the steel liner comprised this type of wagon and perhaps eventually BAA or BBAs.

it’s a working I’d love to model, and cannot remember this working at Bristol Parkway or stabled in Stoke Gifford, so any details of the wagons involved will be gratefully received in the early-mid 1970s.

Neil

Edited May 15 by Downendian

[Stoke West]

5 hours ago, mabel said:

Were the steel carriers the early 20' open containers? Like the type Triang produced. 

They were lancashire flats which was a flat container  with headboard 

[Stoke West]

9 hours ago, br2975 said:

To simplify, these are from the 1971-1972 WTT, showing inter-regional services into and out of South Wales.

.

Most, but not all services bound to'/from Danygraig called at Pengam.

.

4V60 01:35 Sheffield – Danygraig

4E66 16:15 Danygraig – Sheffield

 

4V61 23:48 Parkeston Quay – Danygraig  

4E61 13:15 danygraig – Parkeston Quay

 

4V63 17:12 Garston – Danygraig

4M78 01:00 Danygraig – Garston

 

4V64 20:20 Willesden – Danygraig

4M51 21:10 FX Danygraig, 22:54 Sun Cardiff – Willesden.

 

4V66 01:48 Stratford – Danygraig calls Pengam, combines with 4V60

4E70 18:22 Pengam - Stratford

 

4V69 18:56 Trafford Park – Danygraig

4M71 21:10 Danygraig – Trafford Park

 

4V73 16:15 Edinburgh – Pengam

4S88 13:15 Pengam – Edinburgh

 

4V74 05:38 Southampton – Danygraig

4O63 13:00 Danygraig – Southampton

.

.

There were several timetabled workings to move empty sets around South Wales for maintenance, such as

.

4C08 05:10 MO Barry – Danygraig empties

4C09 09:15 MO Margam – Danygraig empties

.

In addition there was a local steel based 'trip' working;

.

4C29 16:10 WO Pengam – Bellport (Newport Uskmouth Branch)

4C32 20:20 WO Bellport (Newport Uskmouth Branch) - Pengam

.

Then there was the more intriguing Steel Liner, which carried steel in open containers, invariably hauled by a 'Western'

.

4B12 22:25 Sun, 22:05 FX Margam – Stoke Gifford ‘Steel Liner’ whence it combined with the following, working forward as

4A19 21:45 Sun,21:55 FX Ebbw Vale – Park Royal ‘Steel Liner’ 

Returning as

4C63 10:40 FO Q Park Royal – Spencer Works / Ebbw Vale ‘Steel Liner’ empties.

which would split at Stoke Gifford going forward as; 

4C15 13:25 FX Stoke Gifford – Margam ‘Steel Liner’ empties.

And

4C63 10:40 FO Q Park Royal – Spencer Works / Ebbw Vale ‘Steel Liner’ empties.

Out of which there was the

4A93 17:30 FO Q Spencer Works – East Usk Jcn. Empty ‘Steel Liner’

Which was the first part of a trip working by empty sets to and from Barry WRD for weekend maintenance.

.

.

.

More interesting was the following proposal by the Cardiff Division management, commencing with the 1969 (October) Winter WTT

.

The 08:00 Paddington-Fishguard Harbour TThSO would pick up Freightliner sets at Llanelli, which have been worked across by the 10:50 ex-Danygraig.

The empty wagons would return on the 13:55 ECS Fishguard – Llanelli from whence they would depart at 15:55 for Danygraig, and on Saturdays to Cardiff, Canton for maintenance.   

By late October this 'mixed train' had not started running, so the following were introduced from;  22nd. October 1969

07:00 Danygraig - Fishguard Harbour TThSO

12:45 Fishguard Harbour - Danygraig TThO

12:45 Fishguard - cardiff Canton SO (maintenance)

Cl.47s were diagrammed for this working.

.

.

Then, for something completely different there's always.....

.

 

When Stoke Gifford downside closed October 1971 the Margam section was worked to Swindon Cocklebury via Gloucester to join the Ebbw Vale section , in the reverse the split was on the Transfer . Hot box detectors were ignored for these trains as the hot coils set them off