jointline Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 An old leaflet I have with some Fleischmann point motors says that they have a quote "cut out" at each end of the throw which means that they cannot burn out if current continues to be supplied to them. This presumably would mean that they could be operated by a normal two way (on-off-on) switch instead of a passing contact switch. Does anybody know whether this is still the case? The original leaflet shows the point wired up to operate a colour light signal in synch with the point, using the same current source, so presumably a continuous current would have been required for the signal. I'm curious because most solenoids seem to require a passing contact only, otherwise blue smoke is the result! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Yes, you can use a normal on-off-on switch as they have switch contacts that disable the motor at the end of travel in each direction. Movement in the reverse direction is possible because the motor is fed via diodes. Nick ps. some of us find them very noisy and would argue that there are better alternatives Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Thank you very much for your most helpful and informative reply. I can now do much complicated wiring work without worrying about burnout (well from the points anyway....) I agree that they are a bit noisy, but I now have so much Profi track that I can't see me changing. The great advantage of the Fleischmann motors is that they clip onto the point so easily, and you can put them on upside down so that there is nothing to see on the surface. You may have gathered that I am more into operation than realism! Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 21, 2010 Share Posted July 21, 2010 Robert, I suspect my comment about the diodes is wrong and that I was thinking about something quite different Reversal is achieved simply by energising the other coil! However, I did find this page where some people suggest that you can't always rely on the switch contacts. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Thanks Nick for the web page you pointed too, a very useful discussion. The reason I'm asking is precisely because I want to wire the point switch in with route switching/route indication/frog switching etc using four pole three way switches. Dutch_Master, thanks for your tip about not using CDUs, but don't quite understand why the leds would stay lit up without constant current (ie without a momentary switch)? Thanks all Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted July 21, 2010 Author Share Posted July 21, 2010 Hi Dutch_Master, that's very neat! I hadn't thought that you could use the internal switch that way, I was going to use another pole on the point switch to achieve the same effect but I will certainly give this a try! Many thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 Oh dear, I wish you hadn't mentioned manual operation of points in your last post! If this happened it would completely undo all the attempted integration and interlocking I was aiming for. I shall now go away and scratch my head for another couple of weeks..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 Yes, that would be a solution. But I'm spending a bit more time on the electrics than I wanted already (it's a complicated junction with about forty points needing interlocking) and this just takes me further away from playing trains! What I would prefer, in terms of operating realism, is a solenoid operated facing point lock, so that the points couldn't be manually altered. I've had a few ideas on this (after reading about it in a 1940's modelling magazine) but I guess it will have to wait for a bit. The other thing I would like is some way of reproducing fouling bars, but now I really am going off-topic! Thanks for all your help, has saved me a lot of time. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephilnewman Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Hi Dutch_Master, I know this post is from many years ago, but i was wondering if you could possibly help me? I have wired up some points as per your diagram above and it all works fine. What i would like to know is it possible to have bi-colour leds (red/green) that could be switched in this manner to show which track direction is clear and which route is not clear. For example can the two leds in the drawing above be exchanged for red/green leds that will both always be lit but change from red to green with the operation of the turnout. Hoping this message finds you, and that what i am asking is feasible. Best Regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephilnewman Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Hi Dutch_Master, Thank you very much indeed, not really understanding electronics, and seeing your comment "not all opto-couplers are suitable" could i ask you to give me the part number of the one that you would use and i will order some components and then i shall have a go at this and let you know how it goes. As an aside, when i put the previous circuit together as per your original drawing i used a 16v AC transformer to power the point motor as i thought that was what they ran on? Will this work using DC on this as the rest of the layout is DCC? Again, apologies for all these questions, but i don't want to break anything if i can possibly help it!! Really appreciate your time on this. Best Regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephilnewman Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Hi Dutch_Master, I am using Uhlenbrock 63410 accessory decoders for the points, and i have an ltd accessory decoder on my turntable. My main controller is a Roco Z21. Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephilnewman Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Hi Dutch_Master, I normally use Rapid Electronics for all my bits, and i cannot find the PC827 on there, they have got this one in the attachment below, it looks similar will this do the job? 153505_da_en_01.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Could you perhaps use bicolor leds with the anodes connected to the opposed coils? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 No, because the led's cannot handle the current required by the coils to operate. You'd get exactly one short flash of light, then you'd have to replace the led. Could become very expensive if the layout is used extensively But if you meant something else, please make us a diagram for clarity In bed with a stinking cold. Will try to draw pic tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 No, because the led's cannot handle the current required by the coils to operate. You'd get exactly one short flash of light, then you'd have to replace the led. Could become very expensive if the layout is used extensively But if you meant something else, please make us a diagram for clarity Here you go. This circuit is probably exceeding the reverse breakdown voltage of the LEDs, so it might be an idea to add protection diodes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephilnewman Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Dutch_Master, For me the circuit above will be much simpler as it does not involve complex electronics, but, will it work? I thought i had already tried that, amongst the many goes i have had at sorting this out. Actually, i have just tried it and it doesn't work? Best Regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephilnewman Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Dutch_Master, My Sincere apologies, It does work, albeit the leds are very bright! Best Regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephilnewman Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Dutch_Master, There is a problem though, i want to use a bi colour led, 3mm diameter, and to use the circuit above i think i need an led with a common anode, i have looked and i can only find leds with a common cathode. So it looks like its back to the electronics, oh well never mind, it will make me think! That should hurt! Best Regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Phil, The sketch I posted uses common cathode leds. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephilnewman Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi AndyID, Oh, okay, i will have another look at what i have done and see what went wrong? I think i may have blown one of the two common cathode bi colour leds up, and i dont have a spare at the moment to retry it, thank you very much for the drawing though, i will let you know how i get on. Best Regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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