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2FS - Smokey Bacon


SteveBedding
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Thanks everyone for the words of support.

 

I've been in the new job for almost a year now and am approaching the point where I'm getting the hang of it - I can start to move the balance of 'living to work' back towards 'working to live' and get focusing on modelling again. :)

 

Looks a good job Steve. If I had known you were doing this I would have suggested an EDPM roof basically a big heavy duty pond liner which is glued down and then fixed round the edges. What are you using for insulation?

Don

 

Don, I'd heard of the rubber roofing system, but decided to stick with something I was more familiar with - I went with the multi-layer torch on felt as it was something within the 'advanced' DIY scope and didn't need to get specialists in to complete.  As to the insulation, I've used/using a combination of foam celotex (there will be some surplus to provide the landscape for Smokey - an added bonus) and rockwool sheet; this should give an acceptable level of protection (remembering that it is just a shed...) but not be too excessive/costly.

 

About the door - Good spot  :stinker:

 

This is just a temporary fit during construction - more to stop the door blowing in the wind & rain rather than as a security measure!  The intention is to fit a far more appropriate mortise lock and dead-bolts and other security/privacy precautions...

 

In light of Jenny's problems recently I think this is inadequate .....

 

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...I can't see how to get Aslan to take up residence, but I may be able to run to stone pig by the door step?

 

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ok so that's a scary suggestion :scared:  

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  • 1 month later...

UPDATE on New Home (for Smokey)

 

Despite the 1st deadline for eviction from the conservatory having been and gone, I'm still hanging on the room on the grounds of possession being 9/10ths of...  ...well you know what I mean.

 

Although its been quiet on the progress front, this hasn't meant things are not progressing; after the spectacular spurt at the beginning of April, activity has reduced to 'week-end working' interupted with 'family time' - much to Mark's chagrin, this 'muppet builder' doesn't work at his pace :P but I'll get there in the end!

 

About 4 weeks ago, I got the lining of the inside finally finished...

 

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There is a double layer of breathable membrane, sandwiching the rockwool insulation - partly to prevent moisture ingress, and partly to hold the filthy stuff in place whilst the 9mm ply inner lining was fitted.  At this point I found that painter's caulk (allegedly easy to work with!) was a right pig! It was easy enough in the corners, but filling the flat seams between the board was almost beyond my ability to make a 'perfect' joint :(  If I'd stuck to the good old fashined filler, I could have solved all my problems with the trusty belt sander!!!  I have to remind myself that at the end of the day, it still 'just a shed' :P

 

After priming/sizing the ply liner - I found a vintage tub of emulsion that I reckon I must have bought in Payless (remember them?) in Bedford circa 2000/2001 - it only took two coats to get a good finish on the walls and ceiling. 

 

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At the end of this manic weekends efforts, the shed is now inhabitable :)  :)  :)  The floor covering is down and the skirting is fitted; I still have to finish the internal electrics and complete some cosmetic 'white-work', but for all intents and purposes it is now ready to be fitted out

 

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I popped out to a well known builders merchants at the weekend and bought several new kitchen base units; on my return SWMBO asked where I been, so I said where I'd been and what I'd got - she didn't seem too impressed that the shed got a new kitchen when she hasn't - Oops :O

 

It's now two week off the Expo and Smokey's first outing (albeit as a static display/work in progress) so the effort will now switch to finding the boxes of bits for the layout - but at least it'll have a nice home to come back to at the end of the show!  Hope to see some of you there...

 

Cheers :)

 

 

PS for Ian R - Point taken about security, Aslan's deputy has been installed...

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The colour balance of my monitor must be off - that doesn't look much like any GWR colour scheme that I'm aware of.

 

Duh!!! Don't you recognise the stunning clear blue skies over the glorious West Country? :P

 

Seriously, the colour was carefully chosen from the immense range available - after much investigation, deliberation, and cogitation, it came down to a toss-up between B&Q 'Sky' or 'Clear Sky'...  ...'Sky' was carefully selected as it was the only one left on the shelf! ;)

 

The floor covering is actually a black with grey/silver flecks, but it looks quite blue/grey (slate?) now its down - this was actually carefully chosed so that those pesky little brass bits could be easily found or swept up when they chose to go flying....

 

However, in homage to the theme of the layout, the outside of the shed is Chocolate & Cream!

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...I can't see how to get Aslan to take up residence, but I may be able to run to stone pig by the door step?

 

attachicon.gifPig_1.jpg

 

ok so that's a scary suggestion :scared:  

I think if he's adopted, he deserves a paint job. White spot livery gets my vote  :jester: Although maybe more of a railway livery could be incorporated? He'd be your layout mascot.........

Edited by Jaz
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Back on topic...

 

...one of the things that has been a 'niggle in the back of my mind when deciding to model Calne was the Harris bi-product factory to the south east end of the Station. 

 

I had always known that it was originally based on an old airfraft hangar, and information gathered had pointed me towards one of the old WWI RFC flight sheds having been transported from the nearby airfield at Yatesbury.  Way back in the early days of this thread (Post 13!), I had made some educated guesses on the type of building, and just recently I have found confirmation on my guesses :)

 

Many of you will be aware of the Britain from Above website and what a mine of information it can be - I found it a year ago but at that time there was no relevant informtion Calne.  This has now changed - YIPPEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  There are now half a dozen really valid images of Calne Station.

 

The town, Calne, from the south, 1929

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The Harris Bacon Factory, St Mary's Church and the town, Calne, 1929

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Calne Railway Station and the town, Calne, 1929

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The town centre, Calne, from the south-west, 1930

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All these images feature the old hangar and have confirmed my initial guess.  I'm now almost certain that it was an RFC General Service Flight Shed, probably of a design pattern from late 1916 (this also ties in with the remaing hangars at Yatesbury).  The building was approximately 170' long and 80' wide and roughly 30'-35 ft high - this comes from the roof construction which was based on 18 roof frames, each with an 80' span, set at 10' intervals.

 

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Looking at the diagram and comparing it with the build at the station, it would appear that other than not fitting the opening hangar end doors, Harris' pretty much followed the original blueprint when they transferred it to the site - even to the point of replicating the side offices! 

 

As yet I have no images of the north side, but as it would appear that there was a platform along the side on the hangar/factory, there must have been some deviation from the original plan here - I feel modeller's licence coming on here!  Access doors etc?

 

The centre platform appears to be of a wooden tressle type construction but I can't get a view on the one alongside the building - a simple brick pier would be easiest, but it could just have easily matched the wooden center one?  Also, there is no detail on any ramps to ground level; the west end appears to be a vertical drop so that leaves the east end and that is covered by the overhang of the canopy - oh well, I'm sure SWAG probability modellng will derive the solution to this as well :)

 

Why is it that answering one question, raises at least two more?

 

 

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There will always be unanswered questions. I think the most likely route to ground from the platforms is by steps.

 

Strangely enough I hadn't considered steps - the centre platform would have been for unloading box vans (Siphons, Minks, and other visitors) so I would have suspected that the contents would have been moved by barrow or hand trolley.  Initial thoughts would be along the lines of small boxes/crates, and posibly (very) old rusty churns containing 'swill' for the local farmers/suppliers?

 

All I know is that the building was the early 'bi-products' factory for Harris'; what that exactly mean I don't know :(  I suspect that process included making bushes from pig bristles, and possibly boiling bones for soap...  ...but I have no real idea what went on in this building - if someone out there is an expert on what happens to the leftover bits of pigs after the useful parts have been taken to make hams, bacon, sausages, etc I'd love to hear? :)

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Not got a definitive answer to your question Steve but as a native of West Wiltshire all I can say regarding 'by products', is what my dad always said which was that there's only one bit of a pig you can't eat - and that's the grunt!

 

Jerry

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Not got a definitive answer to your question Steve but as a native of West Wiltshire all I can say regarding 'by products', is what my dad always said which was that there's only one bit of a pig you can't eat - and that's the grunt!

 

Jerry

 

What an offal joke.

 

I thank you,

 

Tony

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Hi Steve -

 

Belatedly - 'Welcome back' & nice progress with the shed.  Security-wise I'd recommend a motion detector in one corner, rigged to a 'screamer' alarm with a 30-second delay....  A 'Screamer' has a decibel rating of about 150Db.  Brilliant because (a) the neighbours wont ignore it and (b) - it will literally paralyse (temporarily) an intruder.  Illegal in the UK (the 'Safety Elves' again) I understand they are freely available in the U.S.  Just don't trigger it accidentally...

 

See you at Wallingford & looking forward to seeing 'Calne' in the fleshh,

 

Regs

 

Ian

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Steve on one of the QI programs Stephen Fry read out an enornous list of pig products.

Don

 Thanks Don :)

 

Something along these lines...?

 

"Jellies are made from boiled-up pigskin, but what other uses are there for a pig? Turns out there are loads. Christien Meindertsma, author of the book Pig 05049 lists the following uses: Other than meat, the skin is used in safety gloves, cosmetic surgery (collagen), energy bars, low-fat butter, chewing gum, X-ray film, drug capsules, ballistic gelatine, bread-flour improver made from pig hair, and the skin is used for tattoo practice; the internal organs are used for pet food, tambourine skins (bladder), and heart valves in surgery; the bones are used to make cheap wine corks, stabilising propellant in bullet-making, inkjet paper, concrete, match heads, bone china, train breaks, yoghurt, fabric softener, beer, wine and ice-cream; from the fat they make bio-diesels, soap, shampoo and crayons; from the blood they make cigarette filters, toothpaste and paintbrushes; the ears are used in chemical weapons testing"

 

In the context of the layout - I think I can justify assorted crates/boxes and sacks, and some manky old churns on the factory loading docks.

Edited by SteveBedding
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Smokey's Big Day out...

 

...Although long awaited, and theoretically plenty of time to get ready, the 2mm Expofest at Wallingford suddenly appeared with the all the intendant panic that Captain Edward Smith felt when spying the iceberg appearing on the horizon...  

 

Despite good intentions, the layout was far from ready to be let out on its own, and the good plans for stock had failed to come to fruition - a cunning plan was needed (I just love Blackadder/Baldric - without them we would have to pass through life without any form of cunning planning...).  A swift bit of fettling with 3 lengths of easitrack, 4ft of ply, a circular saw and four hours last week saw Smokey change from a pointless incomplete static work-in-progress to become the fiddle yard for Mitzi's Witney Euston!  This conversion, which albeit had been talked about on and off for the past couple of years gave purpose and experience to the layout, and as an added bonus, made it the biggest one at the show!

 

I did mange to get the majority of the track on the last board complete in time, this time I have chosen to go with straightford copper-clad sleepers and chairplates throughout the turnouts rather than the easitrac hybrids that I had previously tried, but more on that at another time...

 

...and here is Smokey in all its (limited) glory - a big thanks to D869 for taking the photo :) - I remembered to charge and take my camera - but then forgot to use it :O

 

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Although the layout was not as mature as I may have (very optimistically) hoped - it did work as a fiddle-yard, the event gave me the chance to test it with various 'visiting' stock which highlighted the negatives (several pinch points where the gauging was a little tight in the point work, and an alignment issue with one of the point motors) and the positives (the electronics all worked as planned - no failures with the MERG CBus system, and the overall geometry flowed correctly - no curves too tight for a 6-coupled loco!). It also proved that the concept fitted in the car, was robust enough to survive the 50 mile journey, and could be assembled/took-down by one person in about 1/2 hour.

 

Added to this was the enjoyment of having the opportunity to talk to interested people about how I approached things in the construction, and what snags I encountered - everyone was able to suggest alternatives or work arounds. Also, I found several association members had personal knowledge of Calne and were able to add to my understanding of the history - the chance of meeting someone whose uncle happened to have his car damaged by the only bomb dropped on the surrounds during the war was fabulous! Thank you to everyone who took the time to talk (and politely listen to my understanding) of the history and anecdotes of the line...

I would also add that the friendly, relaxed atmosphere, and the evening social made the expo very pleasant - no rush to take down and head off on the Saturday night, and the chance to continue conversations beyond the shows 'closing time' all added to the value of the event - the BBQ, good beer in the bar, and the giggles of camping made it a great weekend :drink_mini: 

 

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I would also add that the friendly, relaxed atmosphere, and the evening social made the expo very pleasant - no rush to take down and head off on the Saturday night, and the chance to continue conversations beyond the shows 'closing time' all added to the value of the event - the BBQ, good beer in the bar, and the giggles of camping made it a great weekend :drink_mini:

 

Was really good to see the layout at last Steve and I agree fully with with the last sentiment, a cracking weekend - even if I did scurry away and miss another Fish anecdote from Mitzi :no:

 

Jerry

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Great to see the layout Steve - wish I could have been in the UK for it.

 

Is that a blue diesel lurking behind the green one lurking behind that steamer? :O

Edited by bcnPete
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  • 1 month later...

It's taken a while - about four months - but the new home for Smokey is now usable :) :sungum:  :)  All the necessary interior work is completed (there's always going to be some minor fettling to do - but nothing that stops the shed being used) and the electrics are in and working.  I know I should be confident in the wiring (I did train in electronics 30 odd years ago - but there is always a lump in the throat when the circuit breaker is thrown for the first time...) and it was reassuring when it all failed to go BANG!

 

I now have tomorrow to evacuate the conservatory and start to complete the unpacking from last years move...

 

Contrary to SWMBO's earlier expectations, the new kitchen units have been put to a far better use than just as domestic fixtures; there is sufficient storage for my tools, materials, and all of the goodies that I have been acquiring for the 'gloat-box'  The bench height was a compromise between a seated height and one that was good to stand at - I now need to find a 'tall' executive chair to work at the desk/bench and strt to make in-roads into the backlog of 'projects' I have been looking forward to :P

 

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I need to fit 8 small 'pillars' to the main frame to simulate the top posts of the legs, but with the open tops of the cabinets and the large gap between them, there is plenty of access to the underside of the layout.

 

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I have carried the wall bar round the end wall to allow for future expansion of the layout.  With a carefully 'modified' 3rd board (replacing the fiddle-yard) running around the corner, I am planning to fit 'Black Dog Halt' on the end of the 'L'; whilst this is geograpically incorrect (the line from Calne turned right (northwards) into Black Dog from the south), my implementation (in the shed) will be for the line to turn left and enter Black Dog from the north - my layout my rules...?

 

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However, I have made a resolution having now finished this building project - and that is to get on with actual railway modelling rather than being side tracked by all of the other completely necessary projects and activities that seem to be so essential but really only put off doing the important stuff :)  Simples really

...

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Things are steaming along nicely now ( :) ) - the shed has moved from being just a building project to actually living up to its purpose!  The support pillars have been fitted to the frame and now the layout sits as it would on its legs; feeling rather smug that everthing fitted as planned and that the boards and trackbed all sit nicely level... :stinker:

 

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The print out on the wall is taken from the 1938 OS map of the station which was used, along with the GWR 40foot plan, to develop the Templot plan and work out the trackbed sizes and outline.  The printed 'map' is a compressed compromise to get the feel for the station yet still fit it within the availalable layout footprint.  The '38 OS map predates the major changes in the station; in '42 the platform was extended to the Signal Box, and another siding was added on the south side (bottom of the plan/front of layout).  Having the plan displayed above the layout will act as reference when I come to build the landscape, and I can add copies of photo's to the relevant areas to highlight the details

 

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One 'downside' to Smokey's new home is that I can't get far enough back for a square on view of the layout to photograph it - taking inspiration from the paparazzi, I was able to patch this composit image standing on a stool in the garden and shooting in through the window... 

 

So much for the previous resolution not to be sidetracked by other 'completely necessary projects' - I may have got further with the migration to the shed/play room/workshop if I hadn't been diverted by some 1:1 scale train driving   :locomotive:  I put this down to research...

 

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...'Salmon' (No 2139), a 1942 Barclay 0-6-0 industrial shunter on duty for the  Steam Passenger Link day on the Swindon & Cricklade Railway.  Thank you SWMBO   :drink_mini:

Edited by SteveBedding
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Following the confirmation of the building (hangar) used as the Harris By-products factory a couple of months ago, I have been working on how to model this structure.  The assorted 1929/30 aerial photos of Calne contain a number of significant views of the station and the surrounds (Original pictures copyright English Heritage)

 

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The south side and west end are nicely covered and are the sources that gave the confirmation of the hangar type; however none of the aerial photos release so far show any details of the north side or east end.  On the plus side, it is mostly the south side and west end that will be facing the front of the layout...

 

At the 2mm Expo at Wallingford earlier this year, several people approached me with information and anecdotes about Calne and the station which gave a fascinating insight, but the highlight was the offer of a collection of pictures taken in 1963 for an academic project; these pictures focused on the by-products factory and have proven to be a goldmine of information and detail of the north side - very many thanks to John Aldrick who passed on copies of his pictures and gave his consent for them to be used in this topic.

 

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As the layout of Smokey Bacon contains a number of compromises in the scale/proportions, I always knew that a full scale model of the hangar was not going to be possible so some reduction in the size/dimensions was going to be necessary.  Fortunately the construction of hangar was based on a number of 10' bays and a simple method of reducing the length was to cut out several bays; omitting  1 bay from each end, and one bay from the centre reduced the overall length from the original 180' to 150' (approx) - keeping the correct height and width with a 20% reduction in length would not look too far out of proportion, and would fit with the overall compression in length of the layout. 

 

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The parts to make a mock-up model of the hangar out of artists mounting board were drawn out and fitted on 2 sheets of A3; the main purpose of the mock up is to confirm the assumptions on size and proportions and so the omission of the 3 bays was factored in, but certain other features such as the main doors, side doors and north side entrances have not yet been finalised. 

 

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The rough mock-up of the hangar along with the 'awining' that over hung the siding and central platform/loading dock:

 

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The ground level at the location of the hangar rises away to the south; the mock-up needs to sit higher than the track by approximately 3'-4' (6-8mm) - the pictures show the hangar sitting about 2mm too high, but there remains sufficient clearance for the CCT and Siphon G used being used for test.

 

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Overall, the mock-up has been a success and shows that the gross sizes are workable; the drawing now needs to be adapted to use 0.8mm or 1mm ply (rather than 1.5mm mounting board) and the main panels/frame will then be laser cut.  The temporary partition/braces in the middle will 'disappear' and the rigidity will come from a solid floor panel.  Lastly, the roof will be removable to show the interior of the factory - should be quite a challenge to model hogs hair brushes and boiling pigs trotters in 2mm!

Edited by SteveBedding
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  • 1 month later...

After a painfully 'bitty' week, I felt the need to get on with some modelling to relieve the stress; there's nothing like the frustrations of the railway to alleviate the stresses of the office :P ... 

 

One thing I have noticed when lurking on the fringes of several topics is that when building a chassis, the soldering and other construction aspects of the chassis and brakes etc are nicely covered, and then the project leaps forward in true Blue Peter style to a completed assembly.  Sometimes the preparation of the wheels is mentioned, but mainly only in regards to stating it's a fiddly task but generally it appears to be glossed over.

 

This hasn't been too much help to me, so since I have a great need for replacement wheels in the conversion of a number of N gauge locos to 2mmFS, I thought that this would be a good time to focus on how to carry out this preparation.  Reading between the lines of several posts, I had worked out that there were several tasks to be carried out:  a) fit crank pins, b ) fit counterweights, c) paint, and d) clean.  This seemed an oversimplification (coupled with my readiness to over-complicate things) so I decided to set-up a 'production line' to deal with several loco's worth of wheels.

 

Step 1 - For the driving wheels, fit the counterweights.  These were fixed in place using epoxy glue and allowed to set; super-glue (gel?) would do here and I did use some to secure a couple of the counterweights where the epoxy hadn't quite fully secured the brass 'weight'.

 

Step 2 - For the driving wheels again, fit the crank pins.  As I was doing the wheels for several different locos, there were a couple of techniques here.

 

For the 2mm association replacement chassis etches with association wheels, these used a 0.5mm turned brass crank pin which is soldered into the wheel hub (could be glued) from the front.

 

The other driving wheels were for a conversion kit for the Ixion Manor loco; this 'kit' came with a piece of 0.5mm hard bass rod which was cut to length, bent to shape and soldered to the wheel from the rear - the added 'complexity' here was the shaping of the 'pin' and the filing of the rear flat to the wheel.  Like many tasks I have encountered while learning the necessary modelling skills, this appeared daunting, but with care and patience (lots of coffee and stops to think things through...) it wasn't as difficult as I had feared.

 

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These are a set of the driving wheels for the Ixion Manor - by the time I did these 6, I had 'amended' the cleaning at Step 3 to include spinning up in the mini drill (Step 7).  This had two benefits in that I could make a better job of cleaning the wheels after glueing/soldering, and the rotating of the wheel could show any imperfections in the wheel, such as wobble or bent crank pins.

 

Step 3 - Clean all wheels.  Combination of VERY carefully scraping off of any excess glue, diligent use of fibreglass brush, and a good rinse/wash in the ultrasonic cleaner.

 

Step 4 - 'Mask' the axles and crank pins on all wheels.  Although I'd heard of a method using electrical cable insulation to do this, I hadn't seen exactly how it worked - in the end it was blindingly obvious and I found that the insulation stripped off from a piece of 1.5mm mains cable cut to 15mm length fitted nicely over the axles, and similarly insulation from 7/0.2 wire worked well on the crank pins :)

 

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Over Christmas last, I experimented on this set of 57xx wheels using an etched primer and matching enamel top coat, I used a paper sheet to mask the rims etc - oops - disaster!  However, they did scrub up OK with acetone and a fibreglass brush and have since been nicely recovered.

 

Step 5 - Spray the wheels.  The easy bit!  I'd knocked up a couple of 'jigs' from some scraps or 2'x1' timber with 3mm holes drilled in them; these worked as holders for the lengths of insulation allowing the wheels to stand off from the wooden block.

 

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Don't forget to do both sides!  I found doing the rear first was easiest as the larger axle insulation mask fitted into the 3mm holes in the block allowing for more secure storage/transport.  These are the wheels for the 14xx/48xx - a good example of making sure you have a reference picture of the prototype engine as in this case, the counterweights on the rear driving wheels are actually next to the crank pin rather than opposite as often expected.

 

As for the paint, after some experimentation several months ago with other etched primers and top coats, which had limited (actually very little :( ) success, I saw a post which suggested an alternative.  Plain black etch primer -  one pass and wheels done - I like that :)  OK I did give them 2 thin coats just to make sure that the spokes were fully covered.

 

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I know it's common to place a disclaimer when plugging a product - so consider it done!

 

Step 6 - CAUTION - DON'T GET CAUGHT DOING THIS!!! -  Time Step 5 to complete when SWMBO is not around and then place the newly sprayed wheels in the oven; pre-heated to 80degC (or whatever is the lowest setting... ;) ), and allow to harden for about 10-15mins.  Actually this is really unnecessary as the primer will dry in about an hour but I'm just impatient!!!!

 

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Freshly baked bogie and tender wheels for the Ixion Manor - the additional masking on the tender wheels is to cover the extended axles which will have to be filed to a point before final assembly.

 

Step 7 - Clean the wheel rims of all wheels.  This is the clever bit :) (I can't claim any original thought here, but this is my interpretation).  Using a small mini-drill, held firmly in a vice, to rotate the wheels, clean the rims of the wheels using a fibre-glass pencil/brush.

 

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No unusual tools are really needed - a knife for (carefully) scraping off the glue, pliers/tweezers to keep the sticky fingers away from the nicely painted wheels, and the luxury of two glass fibre brushes!  Probably because I bought some cheep refills I found that the 2mm (black) brush has a much stiffer bristle and was very good for the bulk of the cleaning, and the 4mm brush (red - with the cheap refils) was much softer and gave a very nice shine to the rim!

 

I have an old mini-drill with variable speed which has a 1.5mm collett - an exact fit for the axles! Keeping the speed down reasonably low, use the bush to remove all the paint from the spinning wheel rim; make sure that the paint is removed from the rim in contact with the rail, the front of the flange, and don't forget behind the flange where the paint may interfere with the clearances.

 

post-6085-0-00504700-1379785069_thumb.jpg

I used a mini drill with a suitable collet for this, but a alternative would be any drill with a small enough chuck/collet or as I have heard, a lathe if you have one.

 

Step 8 - Gaze admiringly at the finished painted wheels and feel suitably smug with the end result  :D   :D   :D

 

post-6085-0-51663700-1379785071_thumb.jpg

 

Optional Step 9 - Blacken the wheel rims.  Not yet done but will be later using 'Birchwood Casy' steel chemical blackening which I have found comes in a very convenient pen dispenser...

 

Well, that was a very productive day!  I now have the wheels ready for that 'here's one I prepared earlier moment' when I get on to the chassis build.  Down side is that of the chassis built at Christmas (57xx and 14/48xx) only the 14/48xx is really usable;  I had used Maskol to cover the bearings when originally painted, and I had forgotten to remove it from the 57xx - in the heat of the summer the latex has now become horribly tacky and cannot be removed from the frames - I guess I need to get another etch and try again  :cry:

Edited by SteveBedding
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