RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted July 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2011 Good to see you back Steve - Watching the hybrid turnouts with extreme interest... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Fast approaching one year into the project and I'm very aware that things appear to have dropped off over the past several months , however, albeit extremely slowly, I have been making quite a bit of progress on the track laying on Board 2. The slow and tedious process of pre-placing the etched brass chair plates on the pcb sleepers has paid off and made the laying of the rails quite straight forward; that said, straight forward or not, my production rate can only be described as less than snail pace . The laying of the straight stock rail across the first 4 right hand points took almost 30 hours to produce about 28.5" of rail (Note: I do mean rail rather than track as this was only for one side!) which equates to a rate of less than 1" per hour - as I said, slower than a snail . I beleive it was worth taking the time to do this (and get it right - I hope) as this rail effectively becomes the datum line for the remainder of the track on this board. I also added to the complexity of getting the rail straight by including joggles in the track which although cannot be seen from a distance, did make getting a true straight alignment quite a challenge. There is still the cross-over to do, and the point into the goods shed, but this represents the majority of the complex work; thanks to the simplicity of Easitrac, the four full length sidings should be completed in a few hours, though with the dining room been reclaimed by SWMBO, I may have to wait a week or so before this can happen . The siding (coloured with yellow highlight) was the main cattle dock line and when the station track was relaid with bull head rail, this siding was left in the original flat bottom rail as most of lts length was embedded in concrete for ease of cleaning. I've watched other attempts to represent this effect with great interest and having seen the 'challenges' that it has caused, I'm approaching my attempt with great trepidation... With the straight stock rail laid, I placed all of the crossing assemblies in the correct locations. These were soldered into place and although the plastic chairs had been fitted they have not been glued down; this allows for easy 'tweaking' of the point/crossing once the track work is completed. However, great care must be taken this way not to damage or knock off the chairs when clumsily wielding the soldering iron and fettling file... One idea I had for making these points was not to cut the strips of brass used to construct the crossing assemblies back to the rail edge; this time I left a short length (about 0.75mm) proud of the rail to represent the chair plate at these locations. Having pre-tined the sleepers, it was a very simple matter to lightly solder these strips down, without affecting the joint to the rail, so fixing the crossing assembly more securely than just leaving it 'floating' (this appeared to work and I was feeling quite pleased with myself here ) The very cruel close-ups really do show just how much cleaning up of the soldering I have to do! This does bring home just how much difference there is between soldering of electrical/electronic equipment and circuits and the making of models and track work... Hey hum, I suppose that this will keep me out of mischief for a number of hours over the next few weeks But once that's done and the rails and sleepers are painted, I'm sure no one will notice how cack-handed the production was.... I've been putting off laying the sleepers for the point leading to the goods shed, as I was aware that the location of the 'moving sleeper' tie-bar was going to be a very close fit to the adjacent point forming part of the crossover. Now that constraints can be clearly seen (below) I can position and fix the sleepers to complete this point. In this case, my lack of ability/experience with Templot is very clear in that 'as-drawn' positioning of the sleepers will have to be adapted when it comes to the 'as-fitted' positions... With a little creative adjustment to the spacings of the sleepers, and I'm quite confident that it will all come together and work as planned (must think positive here...) Well thats all the current progress to-date; I think things are coming together quite nicely and now that the motivation and drive has returned I hope to be able to report a steady stream of steps in the right direction.... PS No gratuitous photos of real trains this time - but I'm off to Didcot tomorrow so watch out for the next instalment! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted July 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2011 Hi Steve, was great to see you and the rest of the Oxford mob at Camrail last weekend. Calne is really making progress now, won't be too long before I can bring some visiting locos up for a play Have fun at Didcot, Kim and I are off to WSR tomorrow and will be sampling the best fish and chips around at Blue Anchor. Cheers Jerry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 29, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2011 Nice to see progress. When it comes to fitting all the sleepers in you often have to adjust the spacing a bit at pointwork. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrislock Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Steve, I thin your pointwork is very impressive, and viewed from a normal distance will look great. I speak as someone treading a similar though far less ambitious path. Look forward to regular updates. Regards, Chris 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted August 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 1, 2011 This might be progressing at a snails pace Steve but from the photos you can see that slow and steady has produced some lovely results. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinWalsh Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hi Steve, Any news updates on this splendid layout? Kev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Kev Thanks for the prompt - all has been too quiet (?) here for a while - modelling has not exactly stopped but has been spread very thin over too many projects!!! Also I've not got to grips with the new format of RMWeb yet (the office IT is too obsolete & slow to be practical to view it when at work) but I hope to get seriously back on-line soon... Some of the minor interruptions/distractions/projects have included: 1) Designing & building the MERG CBUS control system for the Oxford 2mm group layout - should have been simple but its 30 years since I played with the the wiggly amps at component level.... 2) Making some minor (?) modifications to my mill - more on this later 'cos if it works I'll have a big smug grin... 3) Helping Mark and Jerry exhibit WE and Highbury Colliery... 4) Too many shows and the 2mm AGM to go to... 5) ...and finally Smokey did get a look in... (it did suffer from a serious loss of mojo after it was discretely pointed out that I laid the turnout sleepers incorrectly for GWR prototype track - I wish he'd spotted it earlier! That said I now know more about sleepering than I think I ever wanted to know; but after careful consideration and chewing of the fat, I decided that it was too late to do anything about it!) Not one of my better photo's but a quick one with phone to prove that things are moving forward! Easitrac is supposed to be quick & simple but I still take several hours to get about 12-18" done. However I have also got the blades done on 4 of the 9 points on the board (2 will need to be redone but they sort of work at the moment ) *** Since this photo was taken a couple of weeks ago, most of the sidings have been laid and I've started on wiring up the droppers - hopefully a train will run soon - for test purposes of course, not playing *** Oh yes, career transition courses & retraining, and looking for a new job, home etc as I leave the RAF in about 5 months after 20 odd years.. However, I do have a couple of months of 'gardening leave' when I can hopefully finish off this board and publish some photo's and greater details :) Watch this space for progress over the next few weeks/months/years Cheers, PS - the gratuitous train shot... ... a nice pose of a GWR 8750 (later 57xx) in Hawkesworth's post '42 Austerity livery taken at Didcot in July this year., Edited November 8, 2011 by SteveBedding 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted November 9, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2011 Good to see you're still going Steve. The playing testing is most important and needs to be done properly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Yes nice to see you back on track.. <cough> Always annoying when life gets in the way of modelling.. looking forward to seeing more progress Steve.. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Bad rich... It is good to hear you are still progressing, althoughI was most interested in point two. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted November 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2011 A touch of the 'Deja vu's' when I read this Steve I'm with 'Bad Rich' on this...dish it on the mill project... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted November 9, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2011 Steve very nice what tie bars will you be using ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted November 9, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2011 I didn't get to see you at the AGM but it is nice to see you posting again. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Thanks for the continued interest - it acts as a spur to keep going when all else around is providing distractions and 'justifications' for doing other things... To answer the questions raised... NickB, I'm afraid it's nothing sophisticated on the tie-bar front, just a simple moving sleeper arrangement. It is almost the same as done on the crossover on Board 3 (see here) but I've shortened the top layer of brass strip to be more representative of a chair plate and rather than placing the tie-bar sleeper between two existing ones, I've replaced one of the fixed sleeper with a moving one... Probably a bit crude and simplistic (I can identify with that ) but it seems to work and is within my capabilities and skill levels. I'll post some pictures in a bit when I get board back up and have made a working set that is fit for public consumption... (Bad)Rich, Pete, et al, Some may well remember my musings and aspirations on a certain modification to my little mill? Well, a couple of months ago, a certain young lady of this parish, who's model engineering skills are quite phenomenal, suggested that this dream could be achieved as a group effort if too much for one. Well to cut a long story short, a small (but heavy) package was passed to me for playing with... The contents are very straight forward, steppa-motors, mounting plates (very nicely made!), control circuits, and all the necessary, fixings, cables, switches, etc to complete the project. The kit itself come from a German firm (Usovo) and well reflects the engineering reputation of that country. Contents of box - a very nicely put together 'kit' (I apologise for the focus of a couple of the photos - I think I'd been playing with the camera settings again... ...well either that or the G&T may have had a slight effect ). The instructions were obviously not written in English originally, and there are some interesting translations, but the text is backed up by very clear illustrations and makes the steps simple and clear enough to follow. The mill itself brakes down very cleanly, and although some parts are no longer needed, the conversion is very good at identifying and reusing many of the smaller components. My only comment here (and being really picky to even find this small observation) was that the clever re-use of washers was perhaps too clever, and I will add some additional ones to shafts when finalised. The actual conversion could probably be done in a single day - it really was that simple! But it has taken me several weeks through a) procrastination!, B) being too scared to make a dogs dinner of it!, c) (my favourite excuse) being thorough and clear about each step (see a) & b ) above), and d) using very slow curing Araldite rather than the rapid version... ...despite all the delays, I have finally reached the point where I can carry out a practice assembly, and very pleasingly, it all fitted! More importantly, things moved when knobs were twiddled... There is still quite a bit to do to finish off the project, but this is almost entirely electrical related and fairly straight forward - it should only take a couple of hours and then full testing can take place. However, this will have to wait for a couple of weeks as other (less exciting) activities are looming to fill my days. One last observation about the conversion, is that it has improved the usability of the mill; the MF-70 is a very good piece of kit, but the usable working area (along the X & Y axis) is quite limited - the way in which the CNC conversion is carried out has effectively added 15-20mm all round the work table, increasing the available working area considerably. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Woohoo! M. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Wow that looks FUN! looking forward to more reports about using this Steve.. what CNC software are you going to use? Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted November 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2011 dish it on the mill project... spot the architect...when you said a mill project, I thought you had bought an old barn/mill to convert to a railway room that looks a nice bit of kit though...look forward to see what emerges from it... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Wow that looks FUN! looking forward to more reports about using this Steve.. what CNC software are you going to use? Tom Not 100% certain at this point - the kit suggests either WinPC-NC or Mach3 and initial thoughts are leaning towards the latter. However, until I get 'test' or evaluation versions of the software I've not got off the fence on this decision... ...factors will obviously relate to cost, and as this will be shared asset, the views of others, and the portability of the software. Once the hardware is finished, then I'll start testing how it works - I'll need something at that point to make the toy critically important tool do what it's supposed to, and I believe that Mach3 does offer a 30day trial period (and manuals in English...) - that may be a guiding factor, but WinPC-NC is cheaper... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Well, a couple of months ago, a certain young lady of this parish, who's model engineering skills are quite phenomenal, suggested that this dream could be achieved as a group effort if too much for one. Woohoo! M. Hmmm! I wonder who that might be?! Looking good Steve (and Missy!) - CNC is one of those things I've always regarded as interesting and probably really useful, but a bit scary (and rather expensive). Look forward to seeing some quality results. Nice to see the layout progressing as well, Steve. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Looking good Steve (and Missy!) - CNC is one of those things I've always regarded as interesting and probably really useful, but a bit scary (and rather expensive). Look forward to seeing some quality results. Very useful, but especially so if you would like another distraction from making something I considered buying my mill with what I think is this conversion fitted but at nearly £1000 plus the controller on top it was beyond my means. I'm also excited about seeing the results. *warning - possible thread hi-jack* whilst we're on the subject of mills (and yes I am aware this is a layout topic) has anyone looked into the possibility of pattern milling using the engraving attachment for the MF70? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Good grief! Has it really been nearly 4 months since I posted any updates I could have sworn it was only a few weeks!!!!! Oops - I seem to have taken so long in writing this up it has double posted ! See below for full details... Edited March 8, 2012 by SteveBedding 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Good grief! Has it really been nearly 4 months since I posted any updates Welcome back - SB has been missed That's an impressive control concept diagram above...am gonna need a glass of something cold and fresh with a slice of lemon in to guide me through it before I get my head around it. Well done for reaching the milestone for the track on this board too...feels good seeing some trains running up and down eh? Look forward to see some more from this Steve. Now....what's happened to that Mark fellow...he has gone AWOL too of recent... Edited March 8, 2012 by bcnPete 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBedding Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Good grief! Has it really been nearly 4 months since I posted any updates I could have sworn it was only a few weeks!!!!! Well, I had decided to focus on actually getting things done (rather than planning/pontificating/procrastinating) but even with keeping my focus on the layout, progress has been 'steady' rather than like 'greased lighting'. I still cannot help but jump about between projects - baseboards, partially completed wagons, control system, and initial steps in loco chassis construction, and the occaisional show, but overall I can report there has been some significant steps in the right direction Firstly, all of the trackwork on Board 2 has been completed up to the joint with board 3; the dilema over the 'correct' sleepering has been put rest - life's too short for absolute perfection! I did rework the sleepers under the crossover in the station to be more 'prototypical' as the trackwork was incomplete and easily corrected. I have done a 'first-pass' on fettling the pointwork to ensure smooth running using a simple unweighted 2mm chassis; this did identify several areas where despite the use of guages there were noticable pinch points. When I ran my trusty Class 24 over the lot (with an extremely Heath-Robinson wiring lash-up) it experienced no noticable problems and gave reassurance that all was heading in the right direction. Once I'm fully satified that the trackwork is running error free, I'll put in the last few cosmetic chairs arround the Easitrac point work and give the rails a damn good spray of a nice dirty brown. I was not impressed in how long it took me to clean up the soldering on the copper clad sleepers - it was a job that needed to be done, but it really did reinforce the understanding of the 2 ft rule of what level of '(im)perfection' can be seen This leads to another chicken and egg situation - can't fit the point motors until the track is laid, and can't easily test the track (electrifying the frogs) until the point motors and micro-switches have been fitted... This seemed like a good point to finalise the plans for the track control system; that and the fact that the Oxford 2mm Group layout had reached the point of rewiring and implementing their control system, meant that now was a good point to focus on those wiggly amp things. Right from the start, I had decided that I wanted the control of the track to be seperate from the control of the loco's and I really wanted to fulfil a long term aspiration to implement the posibility of some form of computer control or other 'technological' solution; these requirements amd potential solutions were: Loco control: 'Cab control' for individual locos, Concurrent loco running (regular service plus local shunting), DCC or switched DC? [*]Track control Seperate from loco control, Physical switch (or push-button) operation for points, Positive indication of point positions, Seperate DCC accessory bus or MERG CBUS? [*]General: Ability to operate layout from front or rear, PC Interface (loco & track control) - JMRI, Automation? Over the time it has taken to get this far in the layout build, and from experience gained from working or building other layouts, the decison was pretty much made in favour of the Lenz system for the DCC loco control, and the MERG CBUS system for the track (and eventually signal control). I have heard many mixed comments about MERG kits, but I have to say that my own experience of them has been extremely positive; with one exception, I have always found them to be straightforward to make and work first time - the exception was due to my fault in 'cooking' some of the surface mounting components, but in my defence, this was the first time I had ever actually worked with that type of component. I couldn't help myself in knocking up a simple test rig to learn how the CBUS system would work - thankfully, the PC interface is quite straightforward worked easily - I did not want to face programming each board using the switches I've not yet fully programmed the system to fully operate the layout, but so far have created a simple set of instructions to carryout testing of the track work. Once tested and proven to work (with the exception of the control panel LED driver which has had to got to the electronic hospital - thank you Howard to recover from my ham-fisted soldering) the CBUS modules have been fitted to Board 2. I have yet to connect up the feedback/point position detection wires (orange twisted pairs) but this will be done quickly once I have got the point motors working the 'right' way round; the plan is to set the default condition to 'straight' when the control signal is off, and conversly to 'diverging' when the control signal is on. This will simplify the final programming/configuration - when I finally get there... I had originally planned on standardising on Tortoise Motors but due to the precise positioning of two of the turnouts, I have had to use several Cobalt motors as they have a slightly smaller physical footprint. Usual disclamer here - although the Cobalts are slightly more expensive so far I have found them to be very good - somewhat slower in operation than the Tortoise for the same voltage, and noticably quieter; the downside is that you cannot 'manually' throw the arm to operate the turnout (needed for testing), they only work under power. Once the final wiring of the point detection is done, I am going to fit plywood covers over the sections of the baseboard where the CBUS modules are mounted - they are too fragile, particlaly the heatsinks, to be left unprotected. Connectivity between the boards has been addressed with a uniform structure for the wiring; DCC track power is fed via RCA phono connections, 12v dc via standard laptop power jacks, XpressNet (for handsets) via 5 pin DIN plugs (standard connectors for Lenz), and the CBUS network uses normal network RJ45 connections. It may seem that a lot of connectors have used but this was to ensure that it was imposible to incorrectly connect the various circuits. The USB connector allows for PC connectivity direct to the CBUS system, and additional XpressNet connectors have been included to allow for the PC to connect to the DCC system. As to the control panel itself, it was simple in concept but a PITA in practice (now I understand why my daughter calls me this, though I did have to Google it. )! Firstly, the switches and LEDs had to be big enough to cope with 'playmobile' scale fingers and potentially deteriorating eyesight, and would be nice to be a 'feature' of the layout. Secondly, the layout has to be operated from either front or rear so the panel had to be capable of mounting on either side and keep the correct orientation. The 'funny' shape allows the panel to slope when fitted to either the front or rear of the layout - and to keep SWMBO happy, has rubber feet underneath to protect the dining room table... ...and now the messy bit: After seeing this, my son said I had OCD! ...it looks like a right ######-muddle but it works! Well now I just need to rearrange the dining room to loose the table, so the 2 boards can be assembled on their legs and the trackwork can be properly tested... "I'll be back..." (....hopefully before July?) Edited March 9, 2012 by SteveBedding 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 I seem to have suffered my first case of 'premature posting'...it wasn't that detailed when I first posted a reply. That said, some really impressive wiring...no wonder you have been gone....beavering away. Lookin' great Steve and the control panel is elegant simplicity too. Excellent work. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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