Scotland Street Goods

[Jan]

Scotland Street Goods

 

by Jan

 

original page on Old RMweb

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??? posted on Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:58 pm

 

Hello all,

 

Way back when (back....WAY back...) the Railway Modeller did an article on the above station, complete with its interesting track plan and some nice piccies. Does anyone know when it was (i.e the issue number?). I've done an internet search, and only come up with the SubBrit entry...

 

Cheers

 

Jan

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Comment posted by Del on Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:09 pm

 

September 1988, built by David Elbourne

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??? posted on Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:18 pm

 

Del wrote:

September 1988, built by David Elbourne

Hi Del,

 

Thanks. You're kind (and rapid!) reply in giving me the layout builders name led me to this site, and Lo! its the March 1977 issue of RM.... 30+ years ago..... *slumps in chair, feeling suddenly VERY old indeed....*

 

Cheers

 

Jan

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Comment posted by Del on Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:24 pm

 

I only knew it from the 1988 article, as I only started buying RM in 1985

I've found these as well:

http://www.edinphoto....uk/0_edin_t/0_ ... l_yard.jpg

http://www.edinphoto....uk/0_edin_t/0_ ... l_1904.jpg

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??? posted on Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:43 pm

 

Del wrote:

I only knew it from the 1988 article, as I only started buying RM in 1985

I've found these as well:

http://www.edinphoto....uk/0_edin_t/0_ ... l_yard.jpg

http://www.edinphoto....uk/0_edin_t/0_ ... l_1904.jpg

Nice. Here's the SubBrit 1967 (and not so sunny!) version....

 

http://www.subbrit.o...k/sb-sites/site ... et_tunnel/

 

IIRC, it had a platform, with a bay....

 

Cheers

 

Jan

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Comment posted by shortliner on Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:54 pm

 

These are in the files on the Small Layout Design group

http://groups.yahoo....-layout-design/

but you may have to join to see them - HIH

 

 

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Comment posted by Del on Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:08 pm

 

DOH!

Of course they are! I saw them yesterday when I was looking for 'The Art Of Compromise' article

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Comment posted by shortliner on Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:21 pm

 

Del wrote:

DOH!

Of course they are! I saw them yesterday when I was looking for 'The Art Of Compromise' article

...trackplan for which is in files here http://groups.yahoo....ldfiles2/files/

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Comment posted by Del on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:47 pm

 

Thanks Jack but it was the 'other ' Art Of Compromise, Roy C. Link's 6' x 1' from Oct '78. It used to be there but I think it got moved for space reasons

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Comment posted by Austerity94 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:25 pm

 

Hi there,

 

I think I have the original article, with its more 'accurate' track plan. I may also have some pics of the general area, with a NBL 040 diesel on a trip working, from a recent edition of Bylines. If I can find them, would they be of help?

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

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Comment posted by stuartp on Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:29 pm

 

There's a blast from the past ! I saw this layout once, at York I think. Seriously impressive.

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Comment posted by Austerity94 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:55 pm

 

Back again,

 

I've just gone raiding what survives of my archive, and found the relevant articles:

 

1. The plan was in the RM March 77, p83; and

2. The photo was in Bylines December 2007, p22.

 

There's only one pic of Scotland Street, with the others being around the area of Bonnington and Leith, and it shows D2750 on March 1962. I lived near there for a couple of years and much of the infrastructure may still be seen, if you know where to look. I believe the tunnel to Waverley is still intact although it is sealed up at both ends; it's marked by a sign at the city end.

 

Hope this information is of help.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

 

PS. This would make a great layout for some of the finescale freight only types!

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??? posted on Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:46 pm

 

shortliner wrote:

These are in the files on the Small Layout Design group

http://groups.yahoo....-layout-design/

but you may have to join to see them - HIH

Hi Shortliner,

 

It does. Thanks very much. I'm still struggling with the fact that it was over 30 years ago! I was thinking of working something up in XTrackCad, but I'll start with a pen and paper.....

 

Cheers

 

Jan

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Comment posted by 26power on Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:54 pm

 

1876-77 OS map of track layout here (bottom right sqare):

 

http://www.nls.uk/ma...ownplans/edinbu ... _2_nw.html

 

or 1893-94:

 

http://www.nls.uk/ma...urgh500_nw.html

 

If they don't work start exploring from here:

 

http://www.nls.uk/maps/

 

Think I saw the layout once or twice. Seem to recall it was bought by someone in the Edinburgh area (presumably when it retired from the exhibition circuit). Whether it still exists I don't know.

 

Hope some of this is of interest.

 

Cheers,

 

26power

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Comment posted by Chameleon on Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:43 pm

 

We (EDLEC) looked after this layout for many years. I was very well aquainted with it, having changed pretty much every bloody point motor on the thing at least twice! It had the old blue H&M motors which built up carbon on the sliding switches over time til they shorted and burnt out, JOY!

Other than when I was cursing it from underneath it was a wonderful layout to shunt about and I spent many an exhibition shifting wagons. I also bought quite a bit of the stock when the original owner brought it up.

It was bought by a chap called Allan Rees (IIRC) who had something to do with Scotland Yard adventure center which was built on the site of the old yard. He originally bought it to display at the center but realised a finescale model wouldnt really mix with lots of disabled kids, so we got to look after it and take it to shows. It was a fairly accurate representation of the yard with the addition of a through passenger DMU service through the tunnel which ran automatically with a couple of shuttle units and reed switches. (The tunnel was actually rope worked and shut many years ago around the time the Forth bridge replaced the train ferry service to Burntisland when the Waverley was redeveloped. The tunnel can still be seen at both ends and was used as a bomb shelter during the war for LNER staff.) There was once a timber yard on the site and a representation of this was also included. It was really neat to go down there and actually recognise some of the surrounding buildings such as the builders yard. I delieve the yard itself lasted til the late 50's/early 60's, fed by the line coming up from the Granton/Leith area.

Proudest moment was when we got to exhibit it to Princess Anne at the opening day and I described where on the layout we were actually standing!

It ended up in need of some serious renovation and I believe Alan sold the layout some years ago, I dont know its current whereabouts. It was a really nice layout tho.

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Comment posted by RANGERS on Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:05 pm

 

I remember seeing this layout at a Market Deeping Club show held in Peterborough around 1988 - 89, it was a very tidy piece of modelling of an unusual and intriguing prototype. Ironically I acquired a few bits and pieces from it's owner at a swapmeet held in the same venue some years later. I believe he was giving up modelling.

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[Guest Jim Read]

There was a young man (at the time) who made a layout from that RM article, he belonged to Leamington Model Railway Club, I saw the layout at the Town and Country Festival probably in the mid 80's.

 

If you can get in touch with the club you'll probably get some info, more can be had by reading '44 Scotland Street' by Alexander McCall Smith an entertaining novel that also gives some very interesting background info.

 

Jim

[66C]

Hi Jan

 

The National Library of Scotland has large scale town plans available for download.

 

Worth looking to see how much information is there for the period you may need.

 

Regards

[DavidB-AU]

I've had an interest in this ever since I read the RM article all those years ago. Following up Bill's lead, here is the 1:500 Ordnance Survey from 1893 overlaid on a modern satellite image.

 

http://i33.tinypic.com/2d0z51e.png (1623 KB)

 

The distance between the tunnel portals (the Scotland Street tunnel having been closed in 1868) was only 273 feet. The distance from the southern headshunt to the siding at the north western corner (the site of the modern Build Centre) was 627 feet.

 

Are there any photos of the layout being exhibited?

 

Cheers

David

[DLT]

There was a young man (at the time) who made a layout from that RM article, he belonged to Leamington Model Railway Club, I saw the layout at the Town and Country Festival probably in the mid 80's.

 

If you can get in touch with the club you'll probably get some info, more can be had by reading '44 Scotland Street' by Alexander McCall Smith an entertaining novel that also gives some very interesting background info.

 

Jim

 

The Scotland Street layout was at IMREX at The Horticultural Halls round about 1989/90, and I spent a while operating it. A terrific layout, and quite a challenge to shunt. There was a mirror mounted behind the lighting gantry so that you could see to shunt the front sidings, which were otherwise invisible from the rear.

 

Scotland Street HAD to be real, you couldnt make up a trackplan like that. Its so impausible that nobody would beleive it.

 

All the best,

Dave.T

[Russ (mines a pint)]

 

Scotland Street HAD to be real, you couldnt make up a trackplan like that. Its so impausible that nobody would beleive it.

 

I've just been looking at the RM article again having unearthed it - as you say its one of those prototype locations which completely intrigues!

 

 The distance between the tunnel portals (the Scotland Street tunnel having been closed in 1868) was only 273 feet.

 

- having cycled through the actual site when in Leith last year I thought the tunnel portals where close enough for a micro roundy in N gauge and thanks to this thread for confirming that.

 

The original track plan is likewise fascinating it would have to be a very skilled 'trackbuilder' to take that on - a much simplified option might work with normal pointwork or even RTR. Its certainly something worth thinking about if you are short of space.

 

[Phil Parker]

I helped Dave Elbourne exhibit the layout many times. He had a tendency to arrive at the Leamington club on a Thursday night and ask if anyone wanted to go to an exhibiiton that weekend as his crew. Being a lot younger and with no ties, I often said yes.

 

It was an excellent and entertaining track plan. As I recall, the model was very slighly longer than the prototype to make things a little easier. We had two shunters on the go all day and never got bored. One problem was that the layout was square so unusually deep for it's day. That meant the stock had to be very reliable since you couldn't get at it from the back very easily.

 

I remember delivering the layout to Scotland Street and am glad it did a few more shows after we left it. Dave gave up model railway after this although he has dabbled a little in recent years as far as I know. He took Lego stuff out with his son a few times and was thinking about some Italian railways for a while. We've lost touch since he moved down to London. He certainly encouraged me to get properly involved in the hobby. My firsy kit (DJH 02) ran on the layout many times and he sold me a part-built Craftsman 07 as a first etched loco. After that there was a Clayton kit because he'd always wanted one for the layout but was never going to get around to building it. As it was, the thing couldn't pull the inbound/outbound goods as it was heavy and gutless. Looked nice though.