coachmann Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Has anyone had problems with Humbrol gloss paint? I've used it for lining out since 1962. No.7 Buff has barely changed over the past 48 years and has been predictably consistent and was ideal for the job. To make it suitable for lining in a draughtsmans bow pen, I leave tinlets to settle before use. Then i pour off the oil into an empty tin.This generally leaves just less than half a tinof thick 'putty', which I stir thoroughly into a paste. Then some of the oil is poured back until I am happy with the thickness of the paint. This morning I opened a box of six No.7's purchased about 6 months ago and poured off the oil. To my suprise this left just a thin layer of putty in the bottom of the tin, only it wasnt the usual 'putty' but something else that would not stir into a cream. After 10 minutes of stirring it was runny and has proved to be useless for lining out a coach. The other tins were the same. There has either been a definite change in formula or the stuff has gone off. Has anyone else found this when trying to use Humbrol for lining out? The tins are marked Humbrol, Marfleet, Kingston -upon-Hull. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Oooh a paint rant thread. I have not had a problem with gloss paint, because I use HMRS transfers for lining. I have a problem with matt and dull paint. I find that Precision Paints 'dull' is almost gloss however much I stir it. I also have a tin of their matt varnish and that is gloss to me as well. I put up with it for coach sides because they could be relatively clean in reality, but painting the roof in roof grey (dull) only to find that when it is dry I can almost see my face in it, makes me quite angry. I do not want a rake of coaches with shiny roofs, and even less to with wagons. Railmatch matt black is a little better, but still not what I term matt, it is more of a silk finish. Sorry to hi-jack your thread - I will go for a lie down now. It serves me right for trying to build a Mailcoach Gresley Tourist Artic Twin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Coachman, Same problems, I thought it was just me, retired, less patience (according to SWMBO), but now proof it's not just me.... I admit though I don't do all that draining off, but a useful tip. I see I've got some tinlets dated 8/76 (I date all my tins of paint etc, and light bulbs B) ....). I had a similar problem with Pelikan white ink - which I use to get in a tube - for lettering PO's in the 1960-80's, long before all those useful Woodhead transfers came (and now gone) along. Then late '89 (I think, but could have been '79) suddenly a new tube didn't work the same in my bow pen or on the Joseph Gillots 303 nibs etc., I wrote to Pelikan in Switzerland and it appears they had been taken over/sold out to another company, but they were still manufacturing the ink to the same formula, but transfered to another factory - must be like Malt Whiskey, the water makes the taste......... I never did come to terms with the new ink, and within a couple of years there were decent PO wagon transfers on the market anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 I've got 2 tins of new Hornby Humbrol No. 7 coming on Tuesday from Alton MR so i'll see what happens then. If that doesn't work i'll have my retirement party next weekend...B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 I am afraid the formulation used is quite different to the old Humbrol paint, Hornby's supplier seem to use more soluble pigments and different suspension emulsion mediums in the enamel paint. They spray OK, and brush easily, but are thinner than before. Phoenix are also like this, perfect for mixing and spraying, but you do not get the thick pigment "sludge" that characterised the older Humbrol paints. Even more so is Railmatch, which are very low pigment/solids. Personally I do not use enamel paints nowadays for lining, acrylic is first choice, as it washes off easily if mistakes are made, but it needs a lot of care not to get runs from the outside edges of the bow pen. The pens have to be very finely honed to get a thin blade to minimise the outside run effect, Most bow pens work fine with fine ink, but only on paper, where the absorption takes care of the over run. The thick enamel does not spread, you get a fine line. I get just as thin lines with acrylic, but the density is low on orange and yellow, common lining colours. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Following on from the above comments re. Acrylics - I don't like them, they dry to quick (so far) for me - At Kernow YMR show, Lord and Butler o' Cardiff where demonstrating weathering and they were using an Acrylic Thinners (it said on the bottle), but my local art shop doesn't have any Acrylic thinners, so I've bought a bottle of Acrylic 'Flow Enhancer' which states on the bottle '.....when a completely uniform flow of colour is required.... enabling acrylic colours to be applied in a 'Hard Edge' style................'. It seems to give a clean line through my bow pen, perhaps not as fine as I would like, but I may need to add some water to the mix or 'Thinners'. Mind you the bow pen I use had given up doing a decent line some 20 odd years ago, so I haven't used it since then, till now, but looming commitements focus the brain. I'm in Ambleside on Friday for a few days, there's a good art shop there so I will see what they have, but any comments meanwhile would be welcome - I'm ignoring my eyesight problems and having a go at lining on some of my recent built LNWR loco's (OK, they have been about 15+ years under construction, but I need a reserve or two for Warley NEC this year). Acrylic, not Humbrol, I can't get the new stuff to work for me, bertiedog seems to have the reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Every so often I come across Revell enamel paints, which may be an alternative. Being an american company there's a chance they haven't shipped their paint production offshore. I have to admit that I haven't used any as I'm just getting back into painting and I have a good stock of old Humbrol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 A new pot of Games Workshop acrylic works fine in a bow pen neat though slightly older pots do thin fine in water. My experience with newer Humbrol enamels was that the matt black gave a lovely gloss finish when used with a brush . My dad's old Airfix enamels are still going well though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted September 15, 2010 Author Share Posted September 15, 2010 The tins of Hornby Humbrol arrived and have been left to settle for 34 hours, not a lot but enought to test the thickness. It is thicker than the stuff I had so there is hope yet. Acrylic simply won't do for the ultra fine lining that I produce and it is too transparent. In the meantime I produced a small temporary mix of good opaque enamel to finish off a coach..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Chambers Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 The tins of Hornby Humbrol arrived and have been left to settle for 34 hours, not a lot but enought to test the thickness. It is thicker than the stuff I had so there is hope yet. Acrylic simply won't do for the ultra fine lining that I produce and it is too transparent. In the meantime I produced a small temporary mix of good opaque enamel to finish off a coach..... Good Grief...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I'm afraid a slightly coarser expresion when I saw that coach side! I have to say "Full Marks, that man!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted September 16, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2010 I've not noticed this problem with Humbrol gloss paints; in recent years I've taken to using Railmatch paints when I need to use a bow pen for lining as I find they flow out very well from the pen with no thinning needed. I do increasingly have a problem with matt Humbrol paints however, for example when painting large areas such as coach roofs I find it very difficult even with two coats to get an even finish with no brush marks etc. - I'm sure this wasn't the case in the past. I usually use no. 67 'Tank Grey' for this, or sometimes no. 32 'Matt Dark Grey' for a bit of variety. The no. 67 is also available in an aerosol which is useful for painting roofs when they are separate parts (e.g. Bachmann Mk1s), but again, the aerosol I've currently got seems to refuse to produce a matt finish. As Penlan said, I had put this down to old age and impatience, not stirring / shaking the paint enough, so it's interesting to hear that others have similar problems. PS Sorry to hijack the thread slightly, and what a beautiful coach! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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