Ark Royal Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Hi Everyone, I'm looking for some advice on how to achieve the wood finish shown in the pictures below I've read the topics on RM Web relating to "Teak" coaches but wondered if someone out there might have attempted something similar with good results or be able to shed some light onto the techniques involved. So here's 1 coach of the project: The coaches will be lit so the results need to be fairly realistic. Originally I was going to spray a base coat onto the stanchions/compartment walls and then use Ronseal Cherrywood Satin Varnish. I tested this on some scrap material and whilst the results regarding colour shade was good the actual finish was not brilliant. This has led me to attempting with paints and I'm not to enthusiastic about the results.......however this may be my technique. So any ideas welcome with pictures even better. Description of technique would be appreciated. Any worthy reading material suggestions would also be gratefully received. I've also read about Oil Scrumble and would like to explore this avenue further if anyone can give any advice on how to use. Thanks In Advance Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Oil based scumble is getting difficult to track down. My previous supplier (J Radcliff) have change the formula and it is not as good. A possible avenue to explore is to pop into Homebase (assuming you have access to one) and look in the decorating/painting effects (from memory there is usually a special stand) and pick up a bottle of acrylic scumble. Armed with that and suitable shades of any acrylic art paint you should find something you like. You will need a base coat of a plain colour and when that has dried apply a graining coat of the scumble/paint mix. You will need to experiment to find the best combination. For my Gresley coaches I have gone full circle and moved away from scumble. I now use a car spray paint as a base coat and use a mix of humbrol browns with a touch of linseed oil added to help it spread. Ian Rathbone includes teak graining in his Wild Swan book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 What glazing are you planning to use? If not glass then I would suggest looking through it at the appearance of any paint finish you plan to use. Most glazing plastics used in modelling diffuse somewhat, and this seriously reduces contrast and resolution. Also bear in mind that the graining has less contrast than the seat fabric chequering, do you plan to reproduce that as well? I can well understand your wanting it to look right, given the quality of the build up to this stage, but there will always be some detail that is not really worth rendering because it cannot be effectively seen on the finished model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzer models Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Heres the way i paint a wood effect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Dale Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Mark, Like the other guys here, I wonder how far you're actually going to take the details in your DEMU! Certainly the pattern on the moquette is more visible than that of the wood... Even in my 0-gauge coaches I don't worry about graining or moquette patterns as it can't been seen - even if you look closely. However, in answer to your question: I tend to use three(ish) colours for painting wood effects, usually a colour which best represents the 'average' tonal value of the timber. Then a darker colour and the third is one which represents the highlight values. On the vehicle in the photo below the 'highlight colour' was a browny grey to represent the weathering of the timber. All the paints used are enamel; Humbrol or Revell. Brush painting works best, although you might use an airbrush to get the first, mid-tone, on reasonably evenly. The brush marks are worth having though, and always work in the direction of the grain. Leave this first coact to dry off. You can then dry brush the highlight colour on - focussing on scuff marks, edges etc. This will get some depth into the colour. Then leave to dry. The darker tone is then thinned and washed over (in the direction of the grain), controlling the strength of the mix will help it settle or just add some tone. I should perhaps add that this works fine as an approach on a variety of materials. The vehicle shown in the photo is in fact a brass kit (from Weinert), in HO. The intention has been to portray unvarnished timber so I've used all matt colours. For varnished timber you'd probably want the first and wash coats (at least) to be satin; or follow up with a coat of varnish/lacquer. I hope that gets you on your way! Steph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Hi Mark. Another (untried) experiment, would be to photograph the wood/grain effect required, download and re-scale, and print out on to decal, or thin paper...Cut out the required shape, using your etchings (Bl**dy Marvellous ), and/or a straight-edge, as a template, and apply. Rather a long winded affair, I admit, and an un -attempted solution, on my part, but, it might be worth a thought ?. Regards, Frank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Royal Posted October 2, 2010 Author Share Posted October 2, 2010 Oil based scumble is getting difficult to track down. My previous supplier (J Radcliff) have change the formula and it is not as good. A possible avenue to explore is to pop into Homebase (assuming you have access to one) and look in the decorating/painting effects (from memory there is usually a special stand) and pick up a bottle of acrylic scumble. Armed with that and suitable shades of any acrylic art paint you should find something you like. You will need a base coat of a plain colour and when that has dried apply a graining coat of the scumble/paint mix. You will need to experiment to find the best combination. For my Gresley coaches I have gone full circle and moved away from scumble. I now use a car spray paint as a base coat and use a mix of humbrol browns with a touch of linseed oil added to help it spread. Ian Rathbone includes teak graining in his Wild Swan book. Hi Mike, Thanks for your input and especially the "linseed oil" trick. Never would have thought about using oil to help it spread. I will certainly give this a go. Mark What glazing are you planning to use? If not glass then I would suggest looking through it at the appearance of any paint finish you plan to use. Most glazing plastics used in modelling diffuse somewhat, and this seriously reduces contrast and resolution. Also bear in mind that the graining has less contrast than the seat fabric chequering, do you plan to reproduce that as well? I can well understand your wanting it to look right, given the quality of the build up to this stage, but there will always be some detail that is not really worth rendering because it cannot be effectively seen on the finished model. Hi, I know what your saying re: glass but this is not practicable. The seats will not be as in the picture as I'm doing an earlier version when Trojan moquette was used. Re-producing this is impracticable in 4mm scale so I'm willing to compromise on that especially when "paying passengers" will be dotted around. I do however feel that the wood finish can be achieved, especially when the bulkheads, doors and compartments which will all be visible are made up of the same material. Add to that the coaches will be lit and I think any representation would be better than none. Mark Heres the way i paint a wood effect Hi Mozzer, I scoured the RM Web pages before posting this and came across this Marvelous Piece. Unfortunately Pheonix only produce this in Teak grain. Having said that I have examined your fine work again and feel that If I use the base and top coat as the basis I may be on to a winner. Adding a further richer red/brown coat or even spraying a fine coat of Ronseal Cherrywood satin varnish might produce the required result. Thanks for posting this again and making me open my eyes!! Mark Mark, Like the other guys here, I wonder how far you're actually going to take the details in your DEMU! Certainly the pattern on the moquette is more visible than that of the wood... Even in my 0-gauge coaches I don't worry about graining or moquette patterns as it can't been seen - even if you look closely. However, in answer to your question: I tend to use three(ish) colours for painting wood effects, usually a colour which best represents the 'average' tonal value of the timber. Then a darker colour and the third is one which represents the highlight values. On the vehicle in the photo below the 'highlight colour' was a browny grey to represent the weathering of the timber. All the paints used are enamel; Humbrol or Revell. Brush painting works best, although you might use an airbrush to get the first, mid-tone, on reasonably evenly. The brush marks are worth having though, and always work in the direction of the grain. Leave this first coact to dry off. You can then dry brush the highlight colour on - focussing on scuff marks, edges etc. This will get some depth into the colour. Then leave to dry. The darker tone is then thinned and washed over (in the direction of the grain), controlling the strength of the mix will help it settle or just add some tone. I should perhaps add that this works fine as an approach on a variety of materials. The vehicle shown in the photo is in fact a brass kit (from Weinert), in HO. The intention has been to portray unvarnished timber so I've used all matt colours. For varnished timber you'd probably want the first and wash coats (at least) to be satin; or follow up with a coat of varnish/lacquer. I hope that gets you on your way! Steph Hi Steph, Thanks for the "how to do" approach. Yes this helps me on my way. Having tried to "streak" the varying colours whilst the coat below was not fully dry I see where I may be going wrong. Some more attempts needed utilizing your ideas with Mike and Mozzers Hi Mark. Another (untried) experiment, would be to photograph the wood/grain effect required, download and re-scale, and print out on to decal, or thin paper...Cut out the required shape, using your etchings (Bl**dy Marvellous ), and/or a straight-edge, as a template, and apply. Rather a long winded affair, I admit, and an un -attempted solution, on my part, but, it might be worth a thought ?. Regards, Frank. Hi Frank, I had thought of this idea but not for the wood effect but for the Trojan seat pattern until a further bump on the head restored my senses . The issue with using on the seat stanchions is the need to wrap them arround. However thanks for the input Mark Once again Thank-you all for Replying. I certainly have picked up some tips and ideas that now need exploring Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 I've found that very thin applications of Tamiya acrylics onto plastic (not tried brass) can be used to build up a wood effect. If you put them on well diluted, then you will end up with a streaky effect (especially if painting onto white plastic), after allowing the first coat to dry very well (at least 48 hrs) apply another thin wash (diluted with water, not thinner - otherwise you'll end up lifting the previous coat) and repeat as needed until you have built up the effect you're looking for Although time consuming (not the application but waiting for each coat to dry) it produces fairly good results for something that will be seen through a window The colours I use are hull red (for very dark woods) red-brown (for medium dark woods) and earth (for most lighter woods. It ain't 100% accurate or to Pendon Standards, but it does the job. F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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