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Gresley Pacific Tender Pictures

Theakerr

By Theakerr,
in UK Prototype Questions

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Theakerr

Theakerr

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I am about to detail my new Dominion of Canada. I have spent over an hour searching for pictures of the tender front detail. Have only found one that even gets close. From the NRM. The tender is in LNER green and onse can just see what appears to be the emergency brake (water scoop?) lever painted red. I have a very vague memory of some of the lockers being painted white and the brake handles being a polished brass. Would anyone happen to have a picture showing the tender front colour detail?

Thanks

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Galtee More

Galtee More

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It's not impossible, but highly unlikely that you're going to find a colour detail picture of a LNER Pacific's tender front, in LNER livery.

 

Firstly, there was very little colour film around before, during or immediately after the Second World War and what was available was expensive, had very slow and grainy emulsion. The sort of shot that you seem to be hinting at, with the equipment then available, could only really be taken in works, with the engine and tender split. As far as I'm aware, all railway company photographs were mono (black & white) with the subject, quite often in 'works grey'. So, really you're looking for someone who happened to be on a works visit, when a suitable subject was positioned in the right place, who could afford colour film and the time to stand around for an exposure of a fortnight at f8 !

 

There are livery descriptions in the RCTS 'Green Book', Vol 2A. A dip into Yeadons Register of LNER Locomotives, Vol 2, pages 73 and 75, will reveal two pictures of A4 tender front plates, one corridor and one non-corridor (and the second, taken in 1936).

 

As far as I know, in both LNER and BR liveries, the whole of tender front plate and equipment werealways painted black (unless someone knows otherwise !.....). The 'handle' on the fireman's side was the tender brake; that on the driver's side being the water scoop (on the driver's side so that the operator can see the marker boards). I believe that the stanchions and handles were made of steel and also painted black. I doubt that brass would stand up to the rigours of operation, especially in the case of the water scoop.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Ian

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34theletterbetweenB&D

34theletterbetweenB&D

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One of the NRM publications I have by me ( 'Gresley and Stanier') has the V2 specification in Appendix A. The relevant entry in the painting description for a loco to be finished lined LNER green is 'Inside of Cab and front of tender to be dark green'. If a mixed traffic type received a colour finish in this area, one would rather expect similar treatment for the express locos, although as always assumptions are dangerous!

 

As for photographic evidence, it is limited as already noted. Some examples such as the departure of FS on the first non-stop with Gresley and Mayor Batho on the footplate, and the composer Arthur Honneger on the footplate (doubtless gathering inspiration for 'Pacific 231' ) show lining on the tender front (under the curved top front) ; and tonally the tender front isn't black but a shade only a little darker than the cabside.

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swhite01

swhite01

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I visited 60010 in Montreal this week. I took a number of photos around the loco and tender and will place them on my fotopic site later in the week. 60010 is in its original BR Green paint finish as delivered from Doncaster and is currently being assessed for a repaint when funds permit.

 

As noted above Yeadon page 73 has a picture of the corridor tender front.... the tender in the image is that paired with 60010.. i.e. 5326.

 

The front of the tender is black, the various handles are rust covered i.e. not painted. The various cast labels etc are black with white lettering. There is an addition to the pic in its current build... a high level tool? box located between the corridor dood and top door into the coal space.

 

Once i have placed the photos on the Fotopic site I will place a link here.

 

Hope of help,

 

Steve W

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Galtee More

Galtee More

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Sorry to put the dampers on the enthusiasm, but a little clarification is maybe needed here.

 

Theakerr, I understand, is modelling his A4 in LNER livery. All of Gresley's A4 Pacifics were built in LNER days, before the Second World War, between 1935 - 38, and were therefore delivered in one of the LNER liveries. Unfortunately, it seems that Dominion of Canada was never painted in LNER green livery.

 

60010 was built in May 1937, as 4489 Woodcock, and entered service in workshop grey, but with green painted coupled wheels. She was re-painted into LNER blue livery and into traffic 24 May 1937, then re-named Dominion of Canada in June 1937. Repaints followed into wartime black in February 1942, LNER blue in November 1947, BR blue in September 1950 and finally she aquired BR Brunswick Green in May 1952.

 

Dominion of Canada was paired with no less than six different tenders during her service. The tender featured on page 73 of Yeadon's Vol 2 (5326) is a corridor tender, originally fitted to Class A1/A3 and was coupled to 4489/60010 only from May 1937 to December 1937. A similar tender, No 5328, was coupled to this engine from December 1937 until June 1953. For two very short periods in 1953, 60010 was paired with non-corridor streamlined tenders; 5647 (29 Jun 53 - 09 Jul 53) and 5639 (09 Jul 53 - 20 Jul 53). After this brief period, 60010 was reaquainted with tender No 5328 when released to traffic from Doncaster, after a general repair on 27 August 1953, until August 1960, when her original tender found her again until 1965.

 

Ian

 

 

 

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swhite01

swhite01

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Sorry If I have added any confusion. I was aware that the Theakerr is modelling in LNER Green just wanted to add the current state of the Tender front and compare it with the Yeadon photo.

 

And yes I did enjoy my visit to the Museum, Peters comments have been very helpful and I am hopefull of returning to see 60010... next year maybe.

 

Steve

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  • 2 weeks later...
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t-b-g

t-b-g

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My good friend Malcolm Crawley (who actually worked for the LNER for a short time)also reckons that the tender front on apple green locos was dark green. This seems to be a bit of a throwback to GNR days, when the apple green had a dark green border around it on the main livery panels on the loco and tender. He uses something like a brunswick green on his locos.

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Theakerr

Theakerr

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Excellent set of pictures of D of C. Hopefully we will be able to start the "restoration" next spring. Re my D of C, 1st, I think I have created a bit of confusion (normal according to my wife) I am modelling it in BR colours. Anyway, the tender is now close coupled to the loco, has real coal in the tender, is very lightly weathered and the tender back has been left black except it is now matt, the brake and scoop levers were painted a dirty red (I did find a picture showing them painted red) and the connecting door handle painted a dirty white. My memory may be (probably is) wrong but I have this strong memory of cabbing an A4 at Peterborough and that the handle was white. It is typically pulling a rake of 10 Bachmann Thompsons (but for some reason has trouble with 9 old style Hornby Pullmans - will have to check them out to see if I have some poor runners).

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edcayton

edcayton

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If it is a corridor tender then I think there is a chance you might find what you are looking for in a boys' comic, annual or similar because of the unique nature of the facility. I have certainly seen many more photo's of corridor tender fronts (ie separated from the loco) than any other. Beware though, because lots of these were probably B&W photo's but coloured by an artist.

 

Just remembered-cigarette cards!!! I'm sure that is where I've seen it.

 

Ed

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  • 5 months later...
robmort

robmort

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The link no longer works - do you have another one please?

 

I'm building a live steam 2.5" gauge Flying Scotsman/A1/A3 and need photo details of the tender etc.

 

Thanks.

 

I've added a further collection to my fotopic site showing a selection of pictures of LNER and GNR tender details the link is here... http://gallery17789....t/c1912358.html

 

I hope they will be of interest.

 

Steve W

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