Newhaven - shades of Madder Valley?

[Red Fox]

It looks like with BR Sealink ships the logo was reversed on the port side and right way round on the starboard. The usual reason for companies reversing the logo on one side is that's how it appears on the company flag when flown from the mast. I've seen publicity material for Sealink using the logo the right way round and the wrong way round.

[phil_sutters]

Here are a few photos I took in 2008 of Bishopstone stataion, and the remains of the village of Tidemills (between Newhaven and Bishopstone). You can see the remains of one of the many branches in a couple of the photos (the track is half tarmaced over and I walked along it for several minutes before I twigged what it was). In the background of penultimate picture is the remains of Bishopstone Beach Halt.

 

The odd looking footbridge in my last photo is the one in the top left of Chris Leigh's pic 2.

This bridge is still standing - but not for long - between 2.2.2016 and 4.4.2016 it will be replaced by a new steel one - or so the planning notice says on the landward side of the bridge.

[phil_sutters]

Despite there being 'Harbour' and 'Marine' stations, for the paltry ferry service you actually need to get off at 'Town'!!

 

Since the decline of the Ferry Service that once used to be so frequent, Newhaven has gone into a very serious spiral of decline and this is reflected in the semi-abandoned looking nature of the line side buildings as you approach. Depressing really.

 

Newhaven Marine station seems to be little more than a shell with the frame of its platform canopy remaining plus two faded NSE era signs on the walls. Oddly when I was doing my 313 training run there last week, there were two guys up a scaffolding tower in the pouring rain and howling wind stripping rusty paint (more rust than paint) off the canopy framework which rather seemed to be a case of re-varnishing deckchairs on the Titanic to me!

 

Somewhere around Newhaven, the old loco shed still exists all be it now in industrial use, not sure exactly where it is though as Newhaven and the dismal mysteries of the Seaford branch are well and truly off my usual turf.

The old engine shed has now been demolished to make way for the new University Technical College @ Harbourside. http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/35640205. There are further photos of the college in the associated album. The college will be offering courses for 14-18 year-olds majoring in science and engineering, with a special emphasis on marine engineering. The other end of the harbour will be the support base for the Rampion off-shore wind farm.

The Marine station has recently had its lengthy canopy removed, but is home to what must be one of the few existing semaphore signals on Southern territory.

[phil_sutters]

The book to get is called "The Newhaven and Seaford branch" from the Oakwood press, which has a few tantalising details of these lines and includes maps. I have it, but can't find it tonight to quote exact details....

 

There is some useful information on Wikipedia including a photo of a section of inset track (the photo of the windmill which is also in the Oakwood book). Link here My link.

 

There also a little bit on the siding in the page on Bishopstone Beach halt and some more stuff on Disused stations and Sussex Express. The talk about the Nehaven harbour Company locomtive, which I think was a Terrier by this stage.

 

The 1899 Ordnance survey map shows the tide mills as served by and branch off the Seaford line. This has gone in the 1927 map. There's also a separate line from Newhaven along the seafront, which I think is the one I photographed. Have a look at www.oldmaps.co.uk

 

I find these line fascinating and they should make the basis for quite a good model.

Although  this thread is from way back, I have just bought a pair of Alan Godfrey 'Old Ordnance Survey Maps' for Newhaven North and -"- South. They are dated 1937 & 8. (Notes say  Surveyed 1872. Revised 1937-8. Re-levelled 1937) The South map still shows the extensive railway facilities on both sides of the harbour, built around the estuary of the Sussex Ouse, including the East Quay beach tramway. It refers to the Marine Station as the Harbour Station and the Harbour Station as the Harbour Hotel Station. The engine shed and engineering block are shown on the North map. The extent of the facilities with quayside lines, branches fanning out to the west, to a whiting works and to the south along the lengthy break water as well as the beach line to the east and a mass of sidings to the north of the road and rail swing bridge, really surprised me. Apparently the local museum has a good number of photos of the railway and port in its heyday.

[Mike Storey]

I have only just found this thread, courtesy of Phil's recent posts. I worked for Sealink, first at Dover and then permanently at London Victoria, in the early to mid '70's, and we had two boat trains per day, morning and evening, plus reliefs in the summer. There were other ships in between but without direct boat trains.They went to Newhaven Marine, and you just walked along the platform and up a posh plank on to the ships. Being tidal, the heights could vary. In those days, it was relatively well maintained and the Town station was the run down sister. It was very busy, mainly with backpackers, as we offered a cheaper ticket to Paris via that route, especially for the night train, to divert as many as possible off the Dover and Folkestone routes in the summer and at Christmas. I used it many times, not just to Paris but also for trips to Dieppe, which as others have said, was streets ahead of Boulogne or Calais for a day trip, but the four hour crossing was the drawback.

 

When Sea Containers Ltd (the people who ran the first post-BR ECML franchise, GNER, and re-created the VSOE) bought Sealink in the '80's, they didn't keep the service long (sold to Stena) but kept all the land freeholds at the ports (except for operational railway land). They were basically a property and luxury hotels and trains company after containers became less lucrative. They still owned the site in the early 2000's, but went bankrupt, so whether the new owners (whose name escapes me, but you can find it under VSOE) adopted the UK ports as part of the deal, I don't know. But it would explain the fact that little was ever done to smarten the harbour up - SeaCo was registered in the Bahamas. Anyone using the land is (or was) just a tenant. On a recent trip, this time with our car (it's primarily a lorry service now), I was amazed to see the way two chaps berthed the ship on arrival, using bits of scaffolding and old rotting chunks of wood jutting out from the side of the harbour wall, whilst unravelling enormously long ropes to haul us into position. The comparison with the relatively modern arrangements at Dieppe was stark. Most of the harbour on that side is now used for scrap metal, of which there was a huge series of mountains. Welcome to Britain indeed.

[47606odin]

so considering Bishopstone has a pill box, so the Nazi invaders wouldn't like it up 'em, were there any other stations with built in Pillboxes?

[Red Fox]

When Sea Containers Ltd (the people who ran the first post-BR ECML franchise, GNER, and re-created the VSOE) bought Sealink in the '80's, they didn't keep the service long (sold to Stena) but kept all the land freeholds at the ports (except for operational railway land). They were basically a property and luxury hotels and trains company after containers became less lucrative. They still owned the site in the early 2000's, but went bankrupt, so whether the new owners (whose name escapes me, but you can find it under VSOE) adopted the UK ports as part of the deal, I don't know. But it would explain the fact that little was ever done to smarten the harbour up - SeaCo was registered in the Bahamas. Anyone using the land is (or was) just a tenant.

 

Since 2001 Newhaven Port has been owned by a French company which is part owned by the General Council of Seine-Maritime. That organisation also own the pair of Transmanche Ferries, they put the operation of the ships and the Newhaven-Dieppe route out to tender so it is currently operated by DFDS though is planned to return in house in a few years.

[Pacific231G]

I have only just found this thread, courtesy of Phil's recent posts. I worked for Sealink, first at Dover and then permanently at London Victoria, in the early to mid '70's, and we had two boat trains per day, morning and evening, plus reliefs in the summer. There were other ships in between but without direct boat trains.They went to Newhaven Marine, and you just walked along the platform and up a posh plank on to the ships. Being tidal, the heights could vary. In those days, it was relatively well maintained and the Town station was the run down sister. It was very busy, mainly with backpackers, as we offered a cheaper ticket to Paris via that route, especially for the night train, to divert as many as possible off the Dover and Folkestone routes in the summer and at Christmas. I used it many times, not just to Paris but also for trips to Dieppe, which as others have said, was streets ahead of Boulogne or Calais for a day trip, but the four hour crossing was the drawback.

 

Interesting Mike

Newhaven-Dieppe was traditionally the cheapest London-Paris route ever since the LBSCR and the CF de l'Ouest initiated it. If you draw a straight line between the two capitals it is very close to both ports and I think the reason they could undercut the Pas de Calais routes was the much shorter rail journeys each side. I didn't though know that differential pricing was also being used by BR/SNCF for demand management. Nowadays the longer crossing via Dieppe is far more expensive presumably because the ferries can make fewer crossings a day while the Dover-Calais ships are going like shuttlecocks. That was a less important factor before the Ro-ros when all the London-Paris routes offered only a single day and night crossing each way (sometimes with the day crossing doubled) as part of an essentially rail service and the ships spent more time in port than at sea.  If you look at the total time needed to get between London and Paris by train and ship, whatever the route,  it was very difficult to time services other than for a morning and an evening departure.

 

Dieppe was interesting because there was a separate service of cargo ferries to Newhaven and goods and passenger rail services were time segregated using the same tracks. You never saw a goods shunter on the quays when the passenger trains were around - which has distinct modelling possibilities. So far as I've been able to determine passenger sets were never left in the Gare Maritime for more than the couple of hours between arriving with one set of passengers from Paris and returning with a fresh loco taking passengers to Paris from the arriving ferry that had crossed its counterpart in mid channel. 

[phil_sutters]

The ferry service, which has two sailings in Winter and three in Summer, one of which I believe goes to Le Havre instead of Dieppe, is heavily subsidized by the French authorities. They renew the contract a couple of years at a time. They are seeking to add an extra quay at the southern end of the harbour, as well as building facilities for the Rampion Wind Farm, which will be off the coast between Peacehaven and Brighton. The French company is not well-liked by many of the locals, because, although the ferry does bring some business to the town - mainly Spanish & Portuguese lorry drivers nipping into Lidl's, while waiting for the next ferry - they have closed the only sandy beach for many miles, because the walls surrounding it are structurally unsound. The issue has been to the High Court and the beach has been declared Newhaven's village green! It still isn't open. Part of the surrounding structure is the big breakwater, which seems strong enough to hold back the stormy seas. It once had railway tracks along it.

[Red Fox]

The ferry service, which has two sailings in Winter and three in Summer, one of which I believe goes to Le Havre instead of Dieppe, is heavily subsidized by the French authorities. They renew the contract a couple of years at a time. They are seeking to add an extra quay at the southern end of the harbour, as well as building facilities for the Rampion Wind Farm, which will be off the coast between Peacehaven and Brighton. The French company is not well-liked by many of the locals, because, although the ferry does bring some business to the town - mainly Spanish & Portuguese lorry drivers nipping into Lidl's, while waiting for the next ferry - they have closed the only sandy beach for many miles, because the walls surrounding it are structurally unsound.

 

Transmanche Ferries isn't just subsidised by the French authorities, they own it! It was formed as a replacement to the conventional ferry service offered by P&O Stena Line which was withdrawn in early 1999, Stena throwing the route in as part of the merger between themselves and the Dover operations of P&O European Ferries in 1998.  Hoverspeed (owned by Sea Containers, then owners of the port) commenced operations in 1999 with one of their SuperSeaCats which were neither a sea cat or super....... it lasted until 2004.  The French consider the service to be vital to the economy of Dieppe and the surrounding area.

 

Transmanche initially operated with chartered in tonnage, the Sardinia Vera from Corsica Ferries, but they purchased their own vessel in 2002 which they renamed Dieppe to operate alongside the Sardinia Vera. Neither vessel was particularly suited to the route, Dieppe was too big to turn in Newhaven's quite narrow harbour and lacked passenger facilities while Sardinia Vera was old and run down. Transmanche ordered a pair of new ships, the Cote D'Albatre and the Seven Sisters which both entered service in 2006, they are the largest ferries capable of safely using Newhaven.  Also in 2006 the General Council of Seine-Maritime put the operation of the service out to tender and this was won by LD Lines, they tried numerous ways to improve the route and make best use of the vessels including briefly running a Newhaven-Le Havre in 2007 and Dover-Dieppe in 2009 but eventually settled on running a single vessel to Dieppe and using the other to cover their own Portsmouth-Le Havre service. LD Lines channel operations eventually merged with those of DFDS Seaways and have seen quite an upturn in freight traffic resulting in both vessels operating from Newhaven to Dieppe.  As I said in my previous post the General Council of Seine-Maritime wants to return to running Transmanche itself but some behind the scenes problems have meant that DFDS will continue for a few more years.