andyram Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 What happened to Hockaday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Spurs are lucky that Clattenburg is one of their fans. As well as his completely wrong "guess" about the penalty yesterday, they also benefited from two offside goals awarded by Clattenburg and his inept officiating team in the reverse fixture earlier in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 15, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2016 Spurs are lucky that Clattenburg is one of their fans. As well as his completely wrong "guess" about the penalty yesterday, they also benefited from two offside goals awarded by Clattenburg and his inept officiating team in the reverse fixture earlier in the season. Makes a change from 'Fergie Time'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I admit that the penalty was harsh. But offside goals????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I did say in the reverse fixture: Here's one of them: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branchie Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Spurs are lucky that Clattenburg is one of their fans. As well as his completely wrong "guess" about the penalty yesterday, they also benefited from two offside goals awarded by Clattenburg and his inept officiating team in the reverse fixture earlier in the season. Pedro Mendes says hi ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) I did say in the reverse fixture: Here's one of them: offside.jpg Great pic. Linesman is doing a good job in being perfectly positioned. So why did he not flag it? Should have gone to Specsavers??? Edit: Actually, while positioned well enough, the linesman is not in the right place. He should be level with the second-last defender. Edited February 16, 2016 by Joseph_Pestell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 What happened to Hockaday? Sacked, and they've won their last three matches... Maybe a new way forward for football, the owner does the Managers job as well!! Makes a change from 'Fergie Time'. Ah but that only applied to the "other" Manchester team... We had a lucky escape in the Semi against Everton so I'll accept the "what goes round, comes round" in this case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2016 Sacked, and they've won their last three matches... Maybe a new way forward for football, the owner does the Managers job as well!! Ah but that only applied to the "other" Manchester team... We had a lucky escape in the Semi against Everton so I'll accept the "what goes round, comes round" in this case! Not for Everton, it doesn't. We keep getting clobbered by poor refereeing decisions. I can only think of one duff decision that has gone our way this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Great pic. Linesman is doing a good job in being perfectly positioned. So why did he not flag it? Should have gone to Specsavers??? Edit: Actually, while positioned well enough, the linesman is not in the right place. He should be level with the second-last defender. No, he should be level with the last defender - the keeper is out of picture to the right and counts for the purpose of deciding offside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted February 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2016 ^ No. The Linesman NEEDS to be level with the second last defender, the leading attacker AND the passer of the ball. Just not (humanly) possible. Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) The Linesman NEEDS to be level with the second last defender If you're including the goalkeeper as a 'defender', I agree. If by 'defender' you mean just an outfield defender, then I disagree. To avoid being offside, an attacker needs two of the defending team between himself and the goal line, but the rules don't specify what positions those defenders have to be playing. This is obviously the most common situation. The linesman is in line with the last outfield defender (assuming the keeper is back inside his 6-yard box). When the ball is hit forward, if the leading attacker is nearer the goal than this defender, he's offside. The difficult bit for the linesman is knowing when the ball is hit. Either he picks it up in his peripheral vision or perhaps hears the ball being struck. The Linesman NEEDS to be level with the ... passer of the ball. Usually only if there are two (or more) attackers between the second last defender and the goal line (having got there without going offside). In that situation, if the player with the ball passes it, the player receiving it must have been behind the ball when it was passed. Linesman must be in line with the passer to know where the receiver was relative to the passer when the ball was hit. The Linesman NEEDS to be level with the ... leading attacker. I can't think of a situation when a linesman needs to be in that position, though I'm willing to be corrected. (Edit - on further thought, if the 'leading attacker' in the third example was the 'passer of the ball' in the second example, then by my explanation for the second example, the linesman would (coincidentally) be level with the leading attacker.) Edited February 16, 2016 by pH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted February 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2016 ^ "the second last defender" - Yes, any 2 from the defending teams eleven, "passer of the ball" - the guy currently in control of the ball, (however fleeting), "the leading attacker" - the intended 'target' attacking team-mate - whether intended or otherwise - who MUST be behind/or level with the "passer of the ball" at the exact time that the "passer of the ball" last touches it. Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhBBob Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Sacked, and they've won their last three matches... Maybe a new way forward for football, the owner does the Managers job as well!! Not a new concept !! At Elland Road the Owner is the Manager as well ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2016 No, he should be level with the last defender - the keeper is out of picture to the right and counts for the purpose of deciding offside. Common mistake. Yes, in this case (as usual) the goalkeeper is the first defender and so the "last defender" outfield player that we can see is the second last defender. But as a linesman, as I was for a couple of seasons, you have to be aware of the possibiliity of the goalkeeper being further upfield than two of the outfield players. So my choice of words was very deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2016 ^ No. The Linesman NEEDS to be level with the second last defender, the leading attacker AND the passer of the ball. Just not (humanly) possible. Kev. In practice, if the linesman sticks firmly to being level with the second-last defender (including goalkeeper where appropriate), it is easy enough to judge offside. Go either side of that position and it gets much more difficult. But not an excuse in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2016 If you're including the goalkeeper as a 'defender', I agree. If by 'defender' you mean just an outfield defender, then I disagree. To avoid being offside, an attacker needs two of the defending team between himself and the goal line, but the rules don't specify what positions those defenders have to be playing. This is obviously the most common situation. The linesman is in line with the last outfield defender (assuming the keeper is back inside his 6-yard box). When the ball is hit forward, if the leading attacker is nearer the goal than this defender, he's offside. The difficult bit for the linesman is knowing when the ball is hit. Either he picks it up in his peripheral vision or perhaps hears the ball being struck. Usually only if there are two (or more) attackers between the second last defender and the goal line (having got there without going offside). In that situation, if the player with the ball passes it, the player receiving it must have been behind the ball when it was passed. Linesman must be in line with the passer to know where the receiver was relative to the passer when the ball was hit. I can't think of a situation when a linesman needs to be in that position, though I'm willing to be corrected. (Edit - on further thought, if the 'leading attacker' in the third example was the 'passer of the ball' in the second example, then by my explanation for the second example, the linesman would (coincidentally) be level with the leading attacker.) Sorry, I had not seen this correction when I posted above. There is another situation which is not easy for the linesman when he is positioned in line with the defence. That is when an attacking player has run over the bye-line. This happened to me once in an important game (one team fighting against relegation). I knew that the attacking player was not offside because he had not re-entered the field of play. Referee overruled me and struck out a perfectly good goal scored by another attacker. I was rather forthright with the ref at half-time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Get rid of the Offside Rule and it'd make life so much easier!! Not for Everton, it doesn't. We keep getting clobbered by poor refereeing decisions. I can only think of one duff decision that has gone our way this season. What I said before, what goes around comes around, we got stitched by Clattenberg over the weekend cancelling out our lucky goal against your lot! If you look carefully enough there are always plusses and minusses over the season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2016 Get rid of the Offside Rule and it'd make life so much easier!! What I said before, what goes around comes around, we got stitched by Clattenberg over the weekend cancelling out our lucky goal against your lot! If you look carefully enough there are always plusses and minusses over the season... Comes around for some clubs more than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) There is another situation which is not easy for the linesman when he is positioned in line with the defence. That is when an attacking player has run over the bye-line. This happened to me once in an important game (one team fighting against relegation). I knew that the attacking player was not offside because he had not re-entered the field of play. Referee overruled me and struck out a perfectly good goal scored by another attacker. I was rather forthright with the ref at half-time! To me, that illustrates the essence of the offside rule, and it's so often forgotten. "Offside" is really a shortened form of "off your own side of the ball". (It's similar, in that, to the rugby offside rule.) To be in an offside position, you have to be between the ball and the opponents' goal line. If your are not in that area, no matter what else is happening, or not happening, you cannot be offside. I remember seeing an explanation of the rule which began "A player is offside if he is between the ball and the opponents' goal line UNLESS ...", followed by all the conditions - in own half, two defenders etc. that overlay it. I've had a couple of bookings for pointing this out to referees! Edited February 17, 2016 by pH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Comes around for some clubs more than others. Love to see the statistics that prove that... Or does it just seem to be that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2016 To me, that illustrates the essence of the offside rule, and it's so often forgotten. "Offside" is really a shortened form of "off your own side of the ball". (It's similar, in that, to the rugby offside rule.) To be in an offside position, you have to be between the ball and the opponents' goal line. If your are not in that area, no matter what else is happening, or not happening, you cannot be offside. I remember seeing an explanation of the rule which began "A player is offside if he is between the ball and the opponents' goal line UNLESS ...", followed by all the conditions - in own half, two defenders etc. that overlay it. I've had a couple of bookings for pointing this out to referees! Indeed more in common between the two games than people realise. When I coached rugby and had players who were struggling with the offside rule, I would often refer them to soccer as most of them had played that and understood the offside rules. First Welsh try last weekend proved that it can be complicated. Studio panel thought that the referees had got it wrong. I don't think they had but I don't have a copy of the rulebook to hand. Bet there was a lot of talk at Referees' Societies meetings on Monday evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 .... the offside rules. First Welsh try last weekend proved that it can be complicated. Studio panel thought that the referees had got it wrong. I don't think they had but I don't have a copy of the rulebook to hand. Bet there was a lot of talk at Referees' Societies meetings on Monday evening. It certainly sounds like something that would benefit from the kind of photographic scrutiny that they use to analyse racing photo-finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2016 It certainly sounds like something that would benefit from the kind of photographic scrutiny that they use to analyse racing photo-finishes. Not a photo-finish here. The Welsh player was definitely in an offside position but, in my view, not offside as he was not affecting play. A Scotsman then passed him the ball..... All similar to the soccer rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Just as you thought it couldn't get any worse, it just did..... Even as a Spurs man, I would support Utd in Europe, but they are just a shadow of the great teams in the past. http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/18/midtjylland-manchester-united-europa-league-match-report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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