Paint thinning / Applying washes

[scott_efc]

Hello chaps, Again i come looking for your advice.

 

Im having a bit of problem with thinners when both airbrushing and applying washes. When i airbrush on a general grimey colour for example lightly over the whole loco when it dries it just takes on an almost dusty appearance that is too dull. Its as if the thinners dry leaving a dusty residue behind and as such the whole loco takes on the same dull tone no matter what variation in tone is applied. Ive been using humbrols thinners with humbrol enamels. Would something like matt varnish have any effect? Attached a pic below to show what i mean.

 

 

Obviously in real life even though locos get dirty and covered in muck they still have a slight sheen to them. Is there anyway around this and what am i doing wrong that it looks like it does?

 

The middle panel on the above photo i applied a wash of thinners but as its dried its just taken on a dirty dusty grotty look thats just looks wrong.

 

After applying a very thin was of a rusty colour the came thing can be seen here. Its just grey.

 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

[big_daddy_ray]

This is NO advise just an observation but it looks like there's no colour in the wash, what I mean is as if the paint brush is not picking up any colour pigment from the wash just thinners and the other two parts of the paint just not enough of the pigment, do you know what I mean or am I just talking gibberish, you could try a not so thin wash or multiple coats of wash see if that helps sorry its not more help

[scott_efc]

This is NO advise just an observation but it looks like there's no colour in the wash, what I mean is as if the paint brush is not picking up any colour pigment from the wash just thinners and the other two parts of the paint just not enough of the pigment, do you know what I mean or am I just talking gibberish, you could try a not so thin wash or multiple coats of wash see if that helps sorry its not more help

I have been having a bit of a play with it today and i think you are correct. The wash is just too thin. I have made the was thicker and mixed the paint in the airbrush thicker and it seems to be going a little better. I will upload my results later

 

Cheers, Scott.

[RBE]

I like to try to leave some sheen too as loco paint is never flat in real life, but the dirt is! I find it better when doing your washes to be selective as to where you put them leaving the factory finish where there is no weathering. Washes are best used to pick out relief detail, in effect creating false shadow. A give away of models is that small panel lines or nooks etc are very small compared to the real thing and as such light doesn't get trapped in them in the same way on a model as it does in real life (the wavelength and ampltude of light playing its part here, they are 76 times larger in 4mm scale!!. To aid this we need to make it look like a shadow when there isn't one. A thin wash flowed around details does this. You don't need to cover the whole loco just a small brush poking the wash into the details. Capillary action draws it around for you. You can then add thicker muck and runs using thicker paint (still a wash mind). Grime behind handrails and in corners can be done by painting on then rubbing off with a cotton bud in a small amount of thinners (dont soak the bud for this or it'll run everywhere). You will get better results and still keep ya sheen!

 

I have to agree though the washes seem too thin on yours, the rust for instance ought to be thicker and painted on with a bit of purpose rather than as a wash. Takes a bit longer but worth it I think!

 

Cheers

Cav

[Andrew F]

Another thing to remember is that you can work the wash around whilst it is drying and also work it when it has dried. Brushes with varying coarseness and length of bristles can be used to achieve different results; e.g. a brush with hard short bristles could be used to blend in the washes on the steam loco's boiler into the surround paint now it's dry; also this will bring some shine too. Also as stated, the ubiquitous cotton bud is good and experimenting with T-cut is worth a try. Remember that successful weathering is as much a removal process as an application one.

 

The loss of colour to your washes could be down to other paint contamination either on the brush or in the thinners/spirit. I've had these grey dusty results when I've used a brush that's been sat with others together in a pot of white spirit.

 

Good luck and enjoy experimenting.

 

Andy

[Rumblestripe]

You don't mention what pigment you are using in your washes?

 

The problem you might be getting with the dusty residue can be due to the pigment size in the paint you are using in your wash. The residue left on the black steam locomotive may be just the thinners. If you use a cheap white spirit you will see a white residue (particularly over black) after the liquid has evaporated.

 

I use ink for washes as the pigment in an ink is very fine indeed. Also it is useful to add a flow enhancer to reduce the surface tension of the wash. With an acrylic ink I make up a mix of 20:1 water:W&N acrylic flow enhancer (some use liquid soap but the commercial product is more predictable) then add this mix to ink on a palette until you see the surface tension drop (the ink will suddenly spread across the palette as the tension is released). Now apply the wash liberally and whilst it is wet work it all over the model. Leave to dry.

 

Might I suggest that you experiment with a commercial wash such as the excellent Games Workshop ones. Give them a go on an old wagon first to get a feel of them.

[scott_efc]

I like to try to leave some sheen too as loco paint is never flat in real life, but the dirt is! I find it better when doing your washes to be selective as to where you put them leaving the factory finish where there is no weathering. Washes are best used to pick out relief detail, in effect creating false shadow. A give away of models is that small panel lines or nooks etc are very small compared to the real thing and as such light doesn't get trapped in them in the same way on a model as it does in real life (the wavelength and ampltude of light playing its part here, they are 76 times larger in 4mm scale!!. To aid this we need to make it look like a shadow when there isn't one. A thin wash flowed around details does this. You don't need to cover the whole loco just a small brush poking the wash into the details. Capillary action draws it around for you. You can then add thicker muck and runs using thicker paint (still a wash mind). Grime behind handrails and in corners can be done by painting on then rubbing off with a cotton bud in a small amount of thinners (dont soak the bud for this or it'll run everywhere). You will get better results and still keep ya sheen!

 

I have to agree though the washes seem too thin on yours, the rust for instance ought to be thicker and painted on with a bit of purpose rather than as a wash. Takes a bit longer but worth it I think!

 

Cheers

Cav

 

Cheers for all the replies chaps!

 

Cav i think your exactly right. After playing about with various old scrap bodies the last couple of days leaving a bit of factory finish seems by far the best way. By adding layers of paint then taking them away with washes and fibreglass pens etc yet also having areas that are factory finish blended in adds that true variation that you see on real locos. After seeing your efforts on your layout thread they are something to aspire to thats for sure!

 

I have been weathering locos completely by hand for a while and when i got this airbrush i just went over the top and expected the airbrush to do the work. I realise now its just another tool in the armory and weathering by hand is still integral. I have done an old Mainline Peak today and a Bachmann 37 and have to say im rather pleased with the results. I will get some pics taken in the natural light later today and let you lot cast your eyes over them as its always good to get advice on where to improve.

 

Cheers again, Scott.

[scott_efc]

As promised. The old mainline peak was my first proper attempt and then onto the Bachmann 37 which is a much nicer model and as such its alot easier to do a decent weathering job on it. Let me know your thoughts.

 

 

In the following shots you can see where i have attempted the look of a loco with chippings of lost paintwork and areas almost rubbed away to the point of fading etc. After looking at shots of the real thing its clear this was quite common on them and the same on the Bachmann 37.

 

 

Now the 37...

 

 

So let me know what you think . Hopefully not too bad for a first attempt but thats for you to decide!

 

Cheers, Scott.

[Alex]

love the 37 scott .. ......i've got the gear but not yet had the guts to try a spray job yet,

so keep commin on the site look @ what is being done in the hope i will grab the gun and have a go