Advice please - Digitrax decoders, a new question.....

[F-UnitMad]

As someone who rides on the cutting edge of model railway technology, but about 10 years after everyone else, I'm taking the DCC Plunge...

 

I have tried to search this Forum for answers but can't find specific answers, so I hope no-one minds these questions...

 

First; as a 'basic' (and cheaper!!) introduction to DCC Sound, what do users think of these Digitrax chips?...

SDH164D http://www.bromsgrov...m?categoryId=84 and

SDN144PS http://www.bromsgrov...m?categoryId=84

 

I know the diesel sounds may be a bit 'generic' or not strict to type, but for the general impression, are they recommended? maybe our State-side members have more experience of them?

i gather I am to avoid all MRC chips at all costs!!!

 

Second question; how do I wire all a Switcher's lights to be on together, i.e. non-directional?, so headlights at both ends are always on, as I gather this is a common thing for US Switchers when doing a lot of back'n'forth car drilling.

I will most likely be using LEDs (with resistors) for this, rather than bulbs.

 

I have an NCE Powercab; the manual is taking some digesting - and this is supposed to be the easiest DCC starter set around!!

 

Thanks for any help!!

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

The NCE is a great controller so good choice there. Very easy to use. Sound....if you like it no problem and if its a US switcher Im sure the sounds will be close.

 

Ok lights you have a couple of options here firstly you can wire the 2 headlights on a parallel circuit with a 1k resistor in series and put it on 1 function. That way the lights are always on together.

 

The second is the option I would go for as it allows more control and flexibility if needed. Wire 1 function to each light with a 1k resistor in series with the neg (function wire white and yellow). Next adjust the cv's for those 2 functions so that lights come on when travelling forward/reverse. You still have 4 functions left if you use the D decoder so why not add a cab light.

 

Happy Christmas

 

Martin

[AndrewC]

Digitrax went the cheap and easy way with their sound. The idea being an entry level decoder to encourage people to do their own sound projects and share them as opposed to what can become a very expensive proposition. I'm still not 100% convinced by sound but I took the Digitrax route as an inexpensive introduction. I've done about a dozen of my locos with 'Sound bugs' (and have half a dozen more awaiting installation) and for their lowish cost they really sound no worse or better than the £100+ Tsunamis or LoKSound decoders. There are sound sets out there for various locos. The only downside is you need a PR3 in order to change the sound projects in the decoder. Still they cost less than half that of the Loksound programmer, and you can use it as a JMRI interface / programming command station without needing the NCE one. One of the nice things is you can add/remove/change individual sounds within a project. Great if you have a prototype with an unusual whistle or you want a non-turbo version of the engine.

 

I will stay that Digitrax decoders overall are fairly solid but a bit old fashioned. Their motor control and how the FX generator treats LEDS is a bit 1990's.

 

You didn't say what kind of switcher you are planning on putting one of these into? You can d/l the SW1 free from the Digitrax website.

 

Martin has given you the best advise regarding the lights. Just wire em up and change the appropriate cv to deactivate their directional behaviour.

 

 

[15A]

I've been playing with an SDN144PS, it comes pre loaded with generic US Steam and Diesel sound projects (it's a simple CV change to switch between the two). When first plugged into a loco it was very quiet and I was rather disappointed, I could hardly hear it. Turned up the volume to full (via CV) and still far too quiet. Bearing in mind I've only had RTR sound locos, I'm obviously not too sure what I'm doing. However inspiration took over and I decided to 'lash up' a speaker enclosure using a felt tip pen top and some blue tack. Immediate transformation, good volume and all sorts of sounds now audible from both projects.

 

So I'm looking forward to further experiments with alternative speakers (1w 8ohm) and enclosures. I'm waiting for a PR3 to arrive so that I can download British projects (there are a few) from the Digitrax Sound Depot and I want to have a crack at trying something of my own creation too!

 

As a Digitrax Super Chief user, it might be the way forward for me, I'd certainly say so at £34 a go, compared to £90 plus for the ESU chip! Obviously, only if you're prepared to have a 'fiddle' with your own sound projects if you're running British Outline. I model 00 gauge, but as it comes, this chip would possibly fit many N gauge locos 'out of the box' too.

[Nigelcliffe]

If playing with Digitrax sounds and PR3's, I recommend joining the "digitraxsound" group on Yahoo, and in particular, downloading the SPJ-helper application which is regularly discussed there.

 

SPJ-Helper can be obtained from its author at http://www.fnbcreations.net/spjhelper/index.html

[15A]

If playing with Digitrax sounds and PR3's, I recommend joining the "digitraxsound" group on Yahoo, and in particular, downloading the SPJ-helper application which is regularly discussed there.

 

SPJ-Helper can be obtained from its author at http://www.fnbcreations.net/spjhelper/index.html

 

 

Thanks for that information, I'm sure that's going to be very useful to me indeed.

 

I was aware of the Digitrax user group on Yahoo, but not the dedicated sound one. Thanks again!

[F-UnitMad]

Thanks for the replies everyone - seems like I'm on safe ground with the Digitrax decoders.

 

I'm still getting my head around this CV thing as you can tell - I keep forgeting the behaviour of the lights is as much about how they are configured as much as how they're wired... D'oh!!

 

Locos I particularly have in mind are an Athearn SW1500 (old Blue Box), and GP40 (newer box than Blue Box, with plastic handrails, but looks similar to old mechanism inside.) These are just for starters to get used to things - I have some Kato and Proto locos to mess about with later on...

[Matador]

As a pro DCC Sound installer in the USA I have to tell you nothing can touch Soundtraxx for quality of sound or authentic sounds

listen to all the sounds and compare

 

http://www.soundtrax...sunamisound.php

DC Snr

A Brit in the USA

[F-UnitMad]

I have been looking at Soundtrax, and ideally yes I'd like to use them; this is a bit of an "in-between" step - as I said I'm completely new to DCC and how to set it all up; it is a very steep learning curve though, so I don't want to screw up with expensive kit straight away; hence the Athearn locos/Digitrax chips first.

I now have a DCC-fitted Bachmann Geep; it's responding okay to the Powercab, but the motor 'buzzes' a great deal, right from speed step 1, before it's even moving, and in both directions. I haven't yet tried it on straight DC to see if it's a motor fault; is there some CV not set quite right causing the buzzing, or is this stopped by using "Silent Running" chips?

 

Grateful as always!!

[Andrew F]

Decoders make a buzzing sound. I'm pretty new to DCC too but have noticed this noise which is not present on any DC set-up. I've only got ESU decoders and some identical chips are louder buzzers than others. My first experience with DCC was with Digitrax decoders and they seemed a lot quieter than the ESU chips on the buzzing front.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[F-UnitMad]

Decoders make a buzzing sound. I'm pretty new to DCC too but have noticed this noise which is not present on any DC set-up. ...

Hmmm... no wonder Sound is so popular with DCC - it's needed to cover up the noise!!

 

I can't say I'm too impressed so far...

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

two things to address and I have to say, at the risk of flaming, that there is some bad advice on here.

 

Firstly Digitrax sound decoders come in two types 1) those with motor control and 2) those without motor control known as piggy back.

 

Number 2) is what the OP is looking at.

 

FACT 1:- The OP will need to fit motor control chips first and the piggy back decoders after. The cost needs to be factored in before any decisions are made.

FACT 2 :- The sound programming of Digitrax decoders, be they 1) or 2) is accomplished by using a PR3 dongle and software. The PR3 costs money.

FACT 3 :- the OP would appear to be modelling American outline which is well served by RTR sounds that would be impossible to obtain over here anyway.

 

If you add the cost of a motor chip and the piggy back decoder and the PR3 you are not far short of the cost of an ESU Loksound.

 

Type 1) Digitrax decoders are large and designed mostly as plug and play in certain models of Diesel loco all US outline.

Type 2) decoders suffer from the fact that synchronising them with a motor decoder is not easy and the later types do suffer from a poor speaker arrangement and poor volume. Sound Bugs are particularly poor in this and, again, are designed to literally plug in on certain Digitrax motor decoders.

 

Motor buzzing when stationary is not a standard on DCC and is an indication that the decoder needs to have DC running disabled and the capacitors removed.

 

Back to the OP and DCC. If this is your first excursion into DCC then I would advise that sound a la Digitrax is NOT wise for you. If you are determined to have sound and it is only one or two locos and all are American outline, then there is a wealth of RTR stuff available and ESU prices are irrelevant as Soundtraxx and QSI offer loads of acceptable kit and even the pricey ESU is well served in the States with RTR. Check out Tony's Trains and many others for the full ESU list.

 

As to lights, conversion to LEDS is probably a good idea if you go the sound route to prevent power problems but bulbs will be OK on a standard decoder with a 1 amp rating so avoid the cheap ones which I would avoid anyway.

[F-UnitMad]

Firstly Digitrax sound decoders come in two types 1) those with motor control and 2) those without motor control known as piggy back.

 

Number 2) is what the OP is looking at.

 

Thanks for the advice dwhite4dcc -especially about the 'buzzing'!! IIRC I saw you at work demonstrating DCC at the 1st RMweb Member's day at Chasewater?

As I'm the novice here, I hate to ask this, but are you sure the two decoders I've posted links to in the OP are not motor control (type 1's)?? They seem to me to be motor controllers, as the listing says things like :-

SDH164D Motor/Sound/Function Decoder for OO/HO scale

Product Code: DXSDH164D

Features:

 

· 1 Amp Continuous/2 Amp Peak Rating

· 6 FX3 Functions

· Wired decoder can be installed in almost any HO Loco

· Full Digitrax Series 3 mobile decoder feature set

o Speed Tables

o Simplified Scaleable Back EMF

o Advanced Consisting

o Transponding

o Supersonic Motor Drive

o Decoder Lock

o Factory Reset Feature

· .....

(Bold added) Seems to me if they're not motor controllers then there's some misleading info there..?? There's absolutely no mention of them needing a motor chip as well?? But hey, what do I know yet?!?

[AndrewC]

two things to address and I have to say, at the risk of flaming, that there is some bad advice on here.

 

Firstly Digitrax sound decoders come in two types 1) those with motor control and 2) those without motor control known as piggy back.

 

Number 2) is what the OP is looking at.

 

FACT 1:- The OP will need to fit motor control chips first and the piggy back decoders after. The cost needs to be factored in before any decisions are made.

FACT 2 :- The sound programming of Digitrax decoders, be they 1) or 2) is accomplished by using a PR3 dongle and software. The PR3 costs money.

FACT 3 :- the OP would appear to be modelling American outline which is well served by RTR sounds that would be impossible to obtain over here anyway.

 

If you add the cost of a motor chip and the piggy back decoder and the PR3 you are not far short of the cost of an ESU Loksound.

 

Type 1) Digitrax decoders are large and designed mostly as plug and play in certain models of Diesel loco all US outline.

Type 2) decoders suffer from the fact that synchronising them with a motor decoder is not easy and the later types do suffer from a poor speaker arrangement and poor volume. Sound Bugs are particularly poor in this and, again, are designed to literally plug in on certain Digitrax motor decoders.

 

 

Sorry David but a lot of what you've said is way off base.

 

Fact 1: err no. the OP was looking at the combined motor/sound decoder not a sound bug or 'piggy back'. So he doesn't need 2 decoders. You can still use an 8 pin harness with the SDH164D. Newer Athearn allow you to directly plug the decoder into the lighting board using the 9pin edge connector.

Fact 2: you only need the PR3 if you are re blowing sound projects. Everything else can be done with standard CV changes. Even so a decoder + PR3 is still cheaper than a 3.5 Loksound decoder.

Fact 3: contradicting your fact 2 here. If the OP uses the RTR sounds he doesn't need the PR3. Also, what do you mean by impossible to obtain NA sounds here????? Recording your own, or downloading?

 

Cost: Way off base. LokSound 3.5s average around £99 plus £4-5 for the speaker. the SDH164D is £34 with motor control and speaker. The PR3 (if needed) is around £58 so 1 decoder with programmer is still cheaper than a single Loksound decoder. Tsunami are cheaper than the Loksound, running between £65 - £80 depending on what you want. Beware though as they are only rated for 1amp stall which can be a bit close to the edge for older Athearn blue box locos. You really need something with a 1.5 amp stall current rating.

 

Size: as you said many of their decoders are designed as direct drop ins for US outline circuit boards. Makes life easier in a lot of cases esp with Kato locos. However, the SDH164D is 1.273" x 0.67" x 0.25" , whereas most Tsunamis are 1.68" x 0.68" x 0.25". Not much difference, and the SDN144D is half that size in width.

 

Soundbugs aren't the best decoder, granted. But you implied they have to be attached to a Digitrax motor decoder. Not true. Several of mine are chugging along happily with NCE decoders handling the motor and lighting functions. The older SFX004 are basic but produce decent sounds for an entry level decoder. They are also better imho than the later versions.

 

I guess it all comes down to what the OP wants. If he wants to experiment with a couple of locos with some sounds then yea, why not put a pair of SDH164Ds in a couple of locos for the same / slightly lower cost as 'chipping' 1 loco with a Tsunami or Loksound. If it doesn't float his boat, he's down less than £70. If this leads to an interest then he can look at using more expensive decoders to improve the sound experience down the road.

[F-UnitMad]

Cheers Andrew; I thought those Digitrax decoders were "all-in-one" so to speak...

 

You also have "got" the gist of my OP.... yes DCC sound floats my boat alright, but I need to take thngs a step at a time, and if I'm going to get some things wrong at first, I'd prefer to do it with not-so-expensive kit... that can come later when I really know what I'm doing...

[Etched Pixels]

There are a few gotchas with the Digitrax but the new ones are looking quite promising for N at least

 

- The small motor ones are 4Mbit not 16Mbit so some fancier sound won't fit. 4Mbit is a bit tight to get all the fancy start up stuff in

- Programming notching is "fun". You can do notching and you can do really funky notching tricks. If you are just going to get a sound set stuffed into it rather than write your own it's as they say "not your problem"

- The decoder has an external capacitor you need to find room for - although it can be swapped for smaller ones in some cases

- There are bugs on some of them with back EMF and sound so you may need to turn off back EMF if the loco slows down when sounds run.

- The sound licensing model prevents anyone doing third party commercial sounds for them, which basically killed the sound range compared to some of the other decoders, free yes - commercial no because of the licensing on the bits of their code included in each project.

 

On the plus side the new ones are

- Very small

- Excellent shallow speaker

- 8Ohm (standard) not the weird 32 of the old ones or the weird (but nowdays ok supported 100 of the Loksound)

- Easy to program basic stuff

- Incredibly programmable and flexible in "pointy hat" mode

 

and the PR3 is both an excellent programmer and with a choice of very good tools, as well as a CV programmer, and in its other mode a complete computer interface unit for Digitrax stuff, so you can use JMRI etc to run trains off it too.

 

Several suppliers will pre-blow any of the Sound-depot sound sets for you so you don't usually need a PR3.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Thanks for the advice dwhite4dcc -especially about the 'buzzing'!! IIRC I saw you at work demonstrating DCC at the 1st RMweb Member's day at Chasewater?

As I'm the novice here, I hate to ask this, but are you sure the two decoders I've posted links to in the OP are not motor control (type 1's)?? They seem to me to be motor controllers, as the listing says things like :-

 

(Bold added) Seems to me if they're not motor controllers then there's some misleading info there..?? There's absolutely no mention of them needing a motor chip as well?? But hey, what do I know yet?!?

 

My mistake, yes they are combined motor and sound. I haven't looked at this model but I have loaded something similar ( I have a PR2 ) and it was BIG. I was confused by the '164' which is the same numbers as the piggy back.

 

I have to tell you and the whole board that I have been this route and have given up on all except ESU. I banged into the limitations of both CT and Digitrax within a month or two and have still to learn all that the ESU Loksound will do.

 

As to price, I have picked up ESU decoders for £70 and if you are not bothered what is on it (as I am not) then they are available for £80

 

Again, if any of these were that good why haven't the manufacturers taken them on board? Most of them are let down by impenetrable software

 

As I have said before, you get what you pay for. I am afraid that if you want a tailor made RTR project that will satisfy straight out of the box with American outline sounds on it then ESU are the best and in the US but if Soundtraxx or QSI or another manufacturer have an available sound project for your particular model at half the price then it will be half as good as the ESU.

 

Sorry folks but that is just plain experience. Life is too short to go chasing a non existent pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. It is fun playing with these chips and mastering them to a degree but for RTR and a self confessed technophobe and first foray into sound? No way!

[15A]

My mistake, yes they are combined motor and sound. I haven't looked at this model but I have loaded something similar ( I have a PR2 ) and it was BIG. I was confused by the '164' which is the same numbers as the piggy back.

 

I have to tell you and the whole board that I have been this route and have given up on all except ESU. I banged into the limitations of both CT and Digitrax within a month or two and have still to learn all that the ESU Loksound will do.

 

As to price, I have picked up ESU decoders for £70 and if you are not bothered what is on it (as I am not) then they are available for £80

 

Again, if any of these were that good why haven't the manufacturers taken them on board? Most of them are let down by impenetrable software

 

As I have said before, you get what you pay for. I am afraid that if you want a tailor made RTR project that will satisfy straight out of the box with American outline sounds on it then ESU are the best and in the US but if Soundtraxx or QSI or another manufacturer have an available sound project for your particular model at half the price then it will be half as good as the ESU.

 

Sorry folks but that is just plain experience. Life is too short to go chasing a non existent pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. It is fun playing with these chips and mastering them to a degree but for RTR and a self confessed technophobe and first foray into sound? No way!

 

I appreciate your viewpoint, however the cost of the PR3 isn't really relevant to me, as I need to get an interface for my Super Chief anyway, so for £34 a chip I'm going to have some fun and a 'play'. That's all I'm looking for in my case, certainly not "a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow."

 

I may well end up coming around to your point of view, but my experience so far with Digitrax Sound Chips is encouraging, for now at least.

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

and the PR3 is both an excellent programmer and with a choice of very good tools, as well as a CV programmer, and in its other mode a complete computer interface unit for Digitrax stuff, so you can use JMRI etc to run trains off it too.

 

Does it have the LocoNet connection? My PR2 doesn't but I do have a LocoBuffer which has USB connection and LocoNet at the other end. I must admit i haven't used it for years.

[Nigelcliffe]

Does it have the LocoNet connection? My PR2 doesn't but I do have a LocoBuffer which has USB connection and LocoNet at the other end. I must admit i haven't used it for years.

 

Yes, the PR3 has a LocoNet connection. When used as a LocoNet-Computer connection, a PR3 does everything a LocoBuffer can do. When used as a sound programming device, it can do all the sound loading that a PR2 could do.

 

 

I run automated trains, loconet devices such as LocoIO boards, etc.. with my PR3. I was going to use it for Sound Chips, but am now more inclined towards other sound chip makers.

 

 

- Nigel

[Etched Pixels]

Again, if any of these were that good why haven't the manufacturers taken them on board? Most of them are let down by impenetrable software

 

The software for the Digitrax is pretty good for basic stuff, and the 3rd party software is stunning. It's one of the few decoders where the sound programming interface is actually documented so you can get good third party tools. Some manufacturers have begun to use them btw.

 

As an introduction to programming sound chips I've not seen anything that can touch SPJHelper 4

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

The software for the Digitrax is pretty good for basic stuff, and the 3rd party software is stunning. It's one of the few decoders where the sound programming interface is actually documented so you can get good third party tools. Some manufacturers have begun to use them btw.

 

As an introduction to programming sound chips I've not seen anything that can touch SPJHelper 4

 

I must admit that I have kept the downloads up to date but have yet to do more than briefly fire and look. One can only wonder why it has taken four years to get this far. There has been a rumoured new sound and motor decoder from Digitrax. Is it now issued? What model number is it? Is it the one that the OP was directing us to?

 

The programming protocols for the Digitrax chip are unique to that chip and don't overlap other sound decoders AFAIK.

[Etched Pixels]

I must admit that I have kept the downloads up to date but have yet to do more than briefly fire and look. One can only wonder why it has taken four years to get this far. There has been a rumoured new sound and motor decoder from Digitrax. Is it now issued? What model number is it? Is it the one that the OP was directing us to?

 

The programming protocols for the Digitrax chip are unique to that chip and don't overlap other sound decoders AFAIK.

 

Digitrax released their first sound/motor decoders a while back. - the SDN144PS is a small decoder with a tiny 8Ω speaker. It's 31 x 10 x 3 mm or so which means it'll fit some N scale locos quite well. No provided speaker baffle but KS brass tube happens to available in exactly the right diameter

 

Soundwise it seems to be a soundbug equivalent - so 8bit only, slightly limited sample rates and 4Mbit - motorwise its a standard 8 wire/8 pin Digitrax decoder.

 

Pricewise its about £35

[F-UnitMad]

Sorry to bring back a rather old thread here, but progress has been a bit slow in some aspects of my getting to grips with DCC, and my next question is still related to Digitrax Chips and the NCE Powercab...... hope someone can help:-

 

The Digitrax programming notes often talk of using letters for some CV functions (light effects mostly). It seems to me that this must be a Digitrax-specific thing. Are there numeric equivalents for these letters to use when programming with the NCE Powercab? I don't mean the "Hex" values they quote, btw.

I've been trying to follow the instructions for Ditchlights on the Digitrax SDN144PS chip I was on about before in this post - been getting some very weird effects though that aren't listed in their notes!!! One problem might be that I'm trying to re-map the ditchlights away from F1 & F2 functions as they are also the beel and horn, which I don't want on continually, unlike the lights!!

 

I must say, the more I get into DCC, the more info seems to be missing from Chip Manufacturer's manuals... not just Digitrax, but Lenz, TCS... even NCE to some extent...!!