Sailor Charon Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Not sure whether to ask this here, or in small suppliers. I noticed that the PD Marsh made a Manor body kit to fit the Graham Farish Hall chassis, and thought 'Yes, but Ixion do a Manor in RTR' Then I noticed that they did a Grange body kit as well (also to fit the Graham Farish Hall chassis) and I started to wonder, 'Will the Grange body fit the Ixion Manor chassis?' So I sent them an eMail. The reply was 'I don't know if it will, I haven't had a good look at the Ixion Manor.' That's when I decided to ask here, in case anybody here knew if it would. Or, if it needed modifying, how hard that was likely to be. Thanks folks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 30, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2010 You would want to use the tender that comes with the Manor, given that it is tender drive and I can't see the PD Marsh tender fitting over the mech. Being tender drive will mean that the loco body should have plenty of space in it. What you might find is that the PD Marsh loco kit may have been modified in wheel spacing to fit the Hall chassis, given how generic that is. The cylinders on the Manor look to be moulded onto the body so would need removing if you wanted to reuse them. I will be taking my Manor to bits in a week or so's time to remove the wheel sets so could get some measurements / photos then if that would help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 You would want to use the tender that comes with the Manor, given that it is tender drive and I can't see the PD Marsh tender fitting over the mech. Being tender drive will mean that the loco body should have plenty of space in it. What you might find is that the PD Marsh loco kit may have been modified in wheel spacing to fit the Hall chassis, given how generic that is. The cylinders on the Manor look to be moulded onto the body so would need removing if you wanted to reuse them. I will be taking my Manor to bits in a week or so's time to remove the wheel sets so could get some measurements / photos then if that would help. Thanks, that would be most helpful. I was planning to keep the tender as is. (I haven't bought a second Manor yet. I've got quite a lot to do at the moment. Or will have when the post arrives ) I'd probably need to reuse the cylinders so it's nice to know about them being attached to the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 30, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2010 I'd probably need to reuse the cylinders so it's nice to know about them being attached to the body. That's just from having had a quick look a moment ago. When I take the thing to bits I'll confirm whether this is true or not. (Needs chipping and testing before I will strip it and send the wheels of for re-profiling) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 That's just from having had a quick look a moment ago. When I take the thing to bits I'll confirm whether this is true or not. (Needs chipping and testing before I will strip it and send the wheels of for re-profiling) One thing that's handy. Unless Wikipedia is wrong - which it may well be (Unfortunately, I don't have the right RCTS GWR loco book. I thought I did) the wheelbase of the Manor and the Hall are the same, even if the boiler on the manor is 2' shorter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 30, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2010 They many well have the same wheel base in real life , but that does not mean the Farish Hall's wheel base is correct, given how poor the rest of the model is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djgriff Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Hi all i dought very much if thefarish hall chassis is correct, all the old farish 2 6 0 / 4 6 0 and 2 6 4 all have the same chassis and wheel spacing. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 30, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2010 It might be worth asking PD Marsh for the splasher sizes spacings on their Grange kit to see how these compare to the Manors wheel spacings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 I hope I'm not breaking anyone's copyright, but here's the picture of the Grange body kit (unpainted) from the PD Marsh website. (for reference). Hopefully, this will help. I can't tell if the splashers are seperate from (and then glued or soldered onto (in which case, they can be easily put in the right place)) or part of the footplate/running board (and would therefore need to be cut away carefully and reattached if wrong). In all honesty, I'm tempted to bite the bullet and buy one anyway. (Just not yet) If nothing else, it will be good practice at getting the BR passenger livery right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2mm Dabbler Posted January 1, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2011 You would want to use the tender that comes with the Manor, given that it is tender drive and I can't see the PD Marsh tender fitting over the mech. Being tender drive will mean that the loco body should have plenty of space in it. What you might find is that the PD Marsh loco kit may have been modified in wheel spacing to fit the Hall chassis, given how generic that is. The cylinders on the Manor look to be moulded onto the body so would need removing if you wanted to reuse them. I will be taking my Manor to bits in a week or so's time to remove the wheel sets so could get some measurements / photos then if that would help. Strictly speaking the Manor has a tender mounted motor with the loco wheels driven via a cardan shaft and universal joints; essentially identical to Dapol tender locos. I believe the most recent Graham Farish tender locos have a true tender drive with the locomotive itself only providing additional electrical pickup. Merchanically speaking, that is. Kris would be right about the splasher locations having been altered, on the kit they should be part of the footplate casting. I believe Iain Rice, when faced with a similar situation on a Wills Hall (B12 chassis), whipped the kit splashers off with a Stanley knife and reused them. For the Marsh kit I would use the method described in the 'Little Midland' thread with offcuts of brass tube. I've not pulled my Manor apart so I'll let Kris make the "first incision". Be warned though, some older whitemetal kits can be a little crude and need considerable titivating to look good, expecially if your using the Ixion tender intact: the photo of the assembled kit does appear to show a large boiler cutout for the mechanism. Good luck, I look forward to reading more. Regards Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 Well, I've ordered the body kit. And, all being well, I should be getting a Manor to put it on soon. (sigh) Faye-chan is going to be a very busy little thing over the next few months. And I've got my writing to get on with as well. And I've got to finish painting the hall/stairs/landing. Such is life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 2, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2011 Good to see that you have taken the plunge. I shall be interested to here your thoughts on the body, as I have considered scratch building a chassis for one but was could not get enough information on the body to decide if it was worth the effort. As far a stripping the Manor goes. I got home today, having spent all of the Christmas period away visiting various relatives to find that the chip I ordered Wednesday evening has arrived, so hopefully there will be a window to get this in tomorrow so that testing can then commence and stripping for the loco can occur after this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 4, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2011 I have stripped part of the Manor and the boiler and cab are separate assemblies to the footplate/ running board. If I were doing this I would be loosing this part from the PD Marsh loco and just using the boiler and cab. I have been taking photos as I have been going along and will post these later. All I need to do now is work out how on earth you remove the driving wheels from the Manor. Are there any particular measurements that you would like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 I have stripped part of the Manor and the boiler and cab are separate assemblies to the footplate/ running board. If I were doing this I would be loosing this part from the PD Marsh loco and just using the boiler and cab. I have been taking photos as I have been going along and will post these later. All I need to do now is work out how on earth you remove the driving wheels from the Manor. Are there any particular measurements that you would like? Thanks, that's very helpful to know. I'm still waiting for the kit to arrive, understandable as this is the first day that the post office has been open. Am I right in thinking that the splashers are attached to the footplate on the Manor as well? As to what measurements... I'm less worried if I'm keeping the existing footplate than if I wasn't, as that was the part I was least sure about fitting. I'll have to have a think and get back to you. Ah. When you say the cab and boiler are separate from the footplate, does that include the firebox or not? (Forgive me, I'm easily confused.) Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 4, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2011 The cab, fire box and boiler are one unit. The splashers are part of the footplate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 The cab, fire box and boiler are one unit. The splashers are part of the footplate. Thanks, that's what I thought from what you said, but I thought I'd better ask in case I'd misread it, or was letting wishful thinking run away with me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 4, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2011 Right photo time. 1st photo shows the boiler / cab removed. To remove this unscrew the bogie then remove the screw that hides behind this. The blast pipes are a separate part that just sits in place around the screw hole. 2nd Photo is a little on the dark side but just shows the inside of the boiler / firebox. The space here is 15.54mm long x 9.22mm wide and approximately 9mm deep. This holds the gearbox of the loco. There is also a gap that needs to be left in the back head of the boiler to allow for the shaft connecting the motor in the tender to the gearbox. 3rd photo the removed wheel set and gearbox. A right pig to remove. Remove the brake rodding first, then you need to pull out the 2 pins that hold the spring connectors between the tender and loco. Then you need to unclip the chassis, do the front clip first then remove the the rear before sliding the whole assembly forwards. To remove the wheels you need to remove the plate that contains the fake springs. This is clipped onto the rest of the chassis by 3 lugs on each side that are hidden behind the wheels, there is no easy way to release these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks, those pictures are very helpful. (The measurements will prove useful too.) The last one has given me a rather scary idea. What if you could turn the gearbox round to point the other way? Not necessarily on the Manor, but just... in general. Because you can't use the Farish tender driven locos as the basis for a tank engine. But, if you could turn the gearbox round... Maybe it would be possible to make that big GWR 2-10-2T from a 9F chassis? Now, I'll grant the back wheels would be 2mm too close to the ones in front, but... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 4, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2011 You may well be able to unclip the top of the gear box then just rotate the worm and connection point. I'm not going to try this as I have no need to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 You may well be able to unclip the top of the gear box then just rotate the worm and connection point. I'm not going to try this as I have no need to do it. Don't worry, I may have a spare 9F chassis I can try it on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted January 4, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2011 Looking at that PD Marsh body, I think I'd be tempted to use as much of the Ixion model as possible: cab and maybe firebox (if it's big enough - it appears to have a better profile) and even some of the boiler fittings. The reverse project in 00 (Hornby Grange under Bachmann Manor) is described here and here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Well, just to update things here. I've now got all the bits - body and chassis. At first glance, the Grange boiler looks about a mm or two two long. Either that, or I need to move the chimney back. Or both. As far as I can tell, the back of the smokebox should be in line with the back of the cylinders, and I think I'll leave those where they are. Oh yes, and you can (I've learnt, in the course of something else) turn around the gearbox on a Dapol chassis... So that 2-10-2 is looking like a possible option after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Not sure whether to post here or not... But I've finally bitten the bullet, and started sawin' (as the saying goes). I've managed to separate the boiler. I had to cut all round, and then pull, twist, etc to get the metal block out of the firebox. I don't know what the metal is, but I couldn't cut it with my razor saw. I've just blu-tacked the boiler in place to take this photo. As you can see... well, it's a shade too long. About 1.5mm too long. I'm going to cut it just after the first boiler band, as that should get the front of the boiler/back of the smokebox in line with the back of the cylinders. I'm going to need some sort of extra weight in the boiler, as, compared to the Ixion one, it's a bit of a lightweight. Also I need to finish off the bottom of the boiler as well... Well, I've jumped now... Let's hope the impact at the bottom isn't too hard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 . Maybe it would be possible to make that big GWR 2-10-2T from a 9F chassis? GWR 2-10-2? Do you mean the 72xx 2-8-2? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 GWR 2-10-2? Do you mean the 72xx 2-8-2? No. In 1937, the GWR considered building a 2-10-2T tank engine (using a No 7 boiler as the RCTS book helpfully points out.) They never actually built it, mind... But that's no reason not to have a go... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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