johnteal Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 OOH - looks as though I have set something in motion here - the "sounds on MP3 players" has set off another thought - opposite my local Morrisons supermarket carpark there are Scots Pines - that have become a rookery - and they make a heck of a racket - so some scots pines with black lumps of milliput on the branches, and a contionuous loop of "Skwarrkk!, Skwarrkk!!" from a speaker mounted just behind them, might add to the prototypical sounds - and just down the road from there, beside the distillery, we have a heronry - but they don't appear to make noises! This thought begs the question, if its a small layout with a reefer or 2 on ..... Why not just put the compressor sounds along with lots of others, layout mounted, with speakers below the tracks, you could even switch certain speakers on or off. I bet you would be hard pressed to tell where the sounds were coming from.. Which takes us to the whole "ambient noise" debate. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 This thought begs the question, if its a small layout with a reefer or 2 on ..... Why not just put the compressor sounds along with lots of others, layout mounted, with speakers below the tracks, you could even switch certain speakers on or off. I bet you would be hard pressed to tell where the sounds were coming from.. Which takes us to the whole "ambient noise" debate. John I had a similar thought today, although to include all of the incidental ambiances on my layout would need an apple blossom scent air freshener for spring, and a manky cider smell for the rest of the year. And I can't remember hearing one on any videos of the line in action, and hearing a genny over the sound of the train in motion. BTW, from memory the 57' reefers i've heard have had more of a deeper tone and a lower revving exhaust, although the Thermo King video is a good starting point. I'm not sure how to loop the audio to include the start up aswell as continuous generator chugging, so maybe a startup-run-shutdown sequence operated by a push button on the front of the layout might work better for me. The thing that still bothers me tho is my system was regarded as quite "green" being operated by electricity generated from hydro power and using mountain rainwater for irrigation, so the addition of lots of little polluting sources, although prototypical, would take some explaining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 SNIP BTW, from memory the 57' reefers i've heard have had more of a deeper tone and a lower revving exhaust, although the Thermo King video is a good starting point. I'm not sure how to loop the audio to include the start up aswell as continuous generator chugging, so maybe a startup-run-shutdown sequence operated by a push button on the front of the layout might work better for me. The thing that still bothers me tho is my system was regarded as quite "green" being operated by electricity generated from hydro power and using mountain rainwater for irrigation, so the addition of lots of little polluting sources, although prototypical, would take some explaining. Dear 298, RMwebbers, 298, Try these http://staff.fairlightau.com/johnd/rmweb/Thermo_king_01_-10pc.mp3 http://staff.fairlightau.com/johnd/rmweb/Thermo_king_01_-20pc.mp3 http://staff.fairlightau.com/johnd/rmweb/Thermo_king_01_-30pc.mp3 Are we getting closer to your "lower pitch + speed"? (the "-??pc" indicates the ammount of speed/pitch change in percentage, FYI, we've still got plenty of room to drop the RPM furthur if you need...) Also, I'm sorry guys n girls, but I can't help express a little frustration here. - Audacity is FREE - it's _cross-platform_ (IE not strictly a PC-only app) - if you can post on this forum, you have the computer skills to use Audacity to mod these files (The above change to the already-posted files was simply Effect > Change Speed ) - and you PC probably already has a soundcard and speakers, (the above, + _your_EARS_, is the _ONLY_ equipment you _NEED_ to do "scale sound" modelling!) The point being, _You_can_do_this_... Happy Modelling, (Sonic or otherwise), Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS 298, I see devices in my supermarket now, in the "deoderant section", which send a spray of perfume into the air on a simple timer. These perfumes are occasionally available in "model relevant" scents such as "apple blossom". Mount one of these in the layout lighting valence, and the layout will smell "blossom-y fresh" for an entire show... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 This thought begs the question, if its a small layout with a reefer or 2 on ..... Why not just put the compressor sounds along with lots of others, layout mounted, with speakers below the tracks, you could even switch certain speakers on or off. I bet you would be hard pressed to tell where the sounds were coming from.. Which takes us to the whole "ambient noise" debate. John Dear John, Yep, with some strategic sound-design, a small layout could easily get away with a simple PC-multimedia 2.0 or 2.1 speaker rig, and an MP3 player for "ambient sound". Add a DreamPlayer for "cue-able/triggerable effects" http://www.fantasonics.com/scaledreams/player.html and a simple "2-in/1-out" buffer to mix the 2 "sources" into the same single speaker rig (it's only 4 resistors, and a few 3.5mm audio plug/sockets, nothing more!) and you've got a system which can perform just about any "LayoutSound" task you may require. Of course, in the case of the reefers, having the sound truly "onboard" creates it's own little localised "point-source", with realtime panning and doppler movement that you would be hard-pressed to recreate in realtime via a "stationary layout speaker system". As a case in point, my "Brooklyn : 3AM" runs - a MP3 player for "ambiences" - a DreamPlayer for the rave party "trigger on demand" Doof-Doof - and a MRC "Diesel Sound box" + SRC Imaging processor (gives me a "onboard sound" feel, without DCC or actual onboard circuitry, I get to keep my locos on analog! ) all 3 "noisemakers" are summed together using a simple resistor-buffer as mentioned above, (mod'd for 3in/1out, rather than the simpler 2in/1out) and fed thru a 2.1 PC multimedia speaker rig, (L and R "satellites" mounted in the module ceiling, Sub mounted below the module frame, right at chest level) with additional Motorola Piezo "tweeters" firing _backwards_ into the scene, and "slap back" bouncing off the backdrop and scene/structures, directly at the view/listener, thus "localising' some of the audio 'superdetails' _away_ from the actual speaker locations... (Speaker over <-- HERE, dog barks appear to come from over --> THERE...) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Excellent, Prof...just the sort of inspiration needed.... I bet Jack is getting all excited by the bagpipes that precede the chugging? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Excellent, Prof...just the sort of inspiration needed.... I bet Jack is getting all excited by the bagpipes that precede the chugging? Dear Alistair, Not sure if bagpipes and the initial "charge-->prime-->ignition" sequence of a ThermoKing are directly related, but yes, I do hope these ramblings help Jack and others following this thread achieve the kind of "reefer sound" they're looking for... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Check eBay item # 150505721758 I've just ordered a couple of these, to have a play with. I'll also try & have a play with the sound files to do a longer running clip. Is Audacity on Linux/Ubuntu ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I've just ordered a couple of these, to have a play with. I'll also try & have a play with the sound files to do a longer running clip. Is Audacity on Linux/Ubuntu ?? Dear F-Unit, Believe so, although I've never used Linux... http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/ Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 From the Reefer Madness yahoo group: Most of the mechanical reefers 50's to the 80's and maybe beyond had Detroit 3-71 diesels units which ran at about 600 to 700 RPM. Thermal King nose mount and belly mount units used to use a Japanese in line 4 cylinder, which ran at higher RPM and had a high pitch in sound. I am wanting to build sound units for my High level EL Capitan cars which had diesel units for the AC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Not sure if bagpipes and the initial "charge-->prime-->ignition" sequence of a ThermoKing are directly related, aaah, yes.....without knowing immediately what the initial sound was, before the motor burst into life...bagpipes were the first mental image to spring to mind..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 From the Reefer Madness yahoo group: Most of the mechanical reefers 50's to the 80's and maybe beyond had Detroit 3-71 diesels units which ran at about 600 to 700 RPM. Thermal King nose mount and belly mount units used to use a Japanese in line 4 cylinder, which ran at higher RPM and had a high pitch in sound. I am wanting to build sound units for my High level EL Capitan cars which had diesel units for the AC. Dear 298, Detroit 3-71s, like these? How about we check the comparison? http://staff.fairlightau.com/johnd/rmweb/comparison.mp3 This file uses 2 of the YTs linked in this thread, (I'll let you guess which ones), and have had both levels such that they both present a common dBFS level. Let me know which one you prefer... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS this has taken maybe 90 seconds of research on YT, and another 45 sec in Audacity to create the "Comparison" file, I respectfully suggest the "Reefer Madness" inquirier has a net-connection, and thus has everything they need to "sonic model" the units they desire... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Dear 298, Detroit 3-71s, like these? How about we check the comparison? http://staff.fairlightau.com/johnd/rmweb/comparison.mp3 This file uses 2 of the YTs linked in this thread, (I'll let you guess which ones), and have had both levels such that they both present a common dBFS level. Let me know which one you prefer... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Hi Prof, I still think I prefer a lower revving slog than either of the 3-71's featured in the youtube videos, but that's just my own personal choice. What does everyone else think....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hi Prof, I still think I prefer a lower revving slog than either of the 3-71's featured in the youtube videos, but that's just my own personal choice. What does everyone else think....? Dear 298, Of the 4 engines in the "Comparison" clip posted, which one was closest to what you are thinking of? Also, what did you think of the percentage-slowed/dropped clips? I understand canvassing other's P.o.V, but when it comes to LayoutSound on _your_ layout, it's _your_ ears/perspective/opinion that matter, no-one elses... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Got bits for electronic version , and tried - not good - the piezo buzzer is way to high pitched! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Got bits for electronic version , and tried - not good - the piezo buzzer is way to high pitched! Double or treble the capacitor value, just add in parallel , or increase Resistor No2 in most circuits, the higher value one, and the frequency will drop. Even at values mentioned before tolerances may throw the frequency up and down at least 50% due to tolerances. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Photocopy of original article arrived today from Brett at the Kalmbach Library - excellent service and highly recommended - 4 days door-to-door, really can't be bad! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Check eBay item # 150505721758 I've just ordered a couple of these, to have a play with. Still waiting for these MP3 devices... Anybody any idea what shipping times are like from China to UK..?? I'm only familiar with US-UK, and that can vary I know.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Normally around 10 - 14 days, althoiugh I have had items in 4 days, and others have taken 3 weeks+ - only one thing never turned up, and that one I had a message from Ebay.com telling me that the seller had pulled his advert - They asked me to enter a dispute, and Paypal returned my money , Ebay banned the seller and all items he was selling were pulled from the site. No complaints at all about the service from either of them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Yes, jack, it's only because I've done it on Ebay I'm not actually worried about my money; it's just be nice to do some 'playing' with this idea... Then again, usually when an expected package is "delayed", sending an Email to the seller usually coincides with it turning up the very next morning... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Okay... looks like things are going t*ts-up with these MP3 players... just went on "my Ebay", to find no trace of the item or sale, and the "awaiting feedback 1 item" gone too. Further searching brought up the following:- This listing (150505721758) has been removed, or this item is not available. * o Please check that you've entered the correct item number o Listings that have ended 90 or more days ago will not be available for viewing. :angry: No sign of a refund yet off Paypal, so Dispute opened. Not sure whether to remove my Bank details from Paypal or not; keeping a close eye on the account, anyway. I wonder how long it'll take Ebay/Paypal to deal with this? I shall phone them soon if I get nowhere as god knows if these forms ever get read. They don't even work properly - I ticked the box saying I hadn't contacted the Seller (as I can't find the item - as it's no longer listed!!) and the next screen said "You have told us you have contacted the Seller"... Not happy bunny at the moment... suppose it serves me right for trusting a Chinese source in the first place - and not checking the Feedback first!!... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 .... I had a message from Ebay.com telling me that the seller had pulled his advert - They asked me to enter a dispute, and Paypal returned my money ... Just to say I had no such message in my case - to all intents and purposes it looks as if the transaction never happened on my Ebay; fortunately it is listed on my Paypal account. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 If you open a dispute with ebay/paypal to get your money returned, they will almost certainly ask you to contact the seller to find out when your goods were dispatched etc. If there is no satisfactory reply in a reasonable time (about six days) you inform them and the system grinds into motion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Been on phone to Ebay; the wheels are in motion, albeit slowly. I have to wait ten days to allow Seller response - however unlikely!! - then escalate the case; if no refund issued from Seller (again unlikely) then Ebay/Paypal will refund. As I posted on 18th it was only because of this I'm not thinking I've lost my money; it's just the flippin' hassle you can do without, isn't it. Anyway, as I said, should've checked feedback first!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Just to report that I have had a refund from Ebay. Now we're back to square one though.... I can't find any similar-looking (and cheap!!) MP3 players with a mini-speaker on Ebay, so for now my Reefers are still silent. Any suggestions...?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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