LNER/ER Pullman Cars

[Theakerr]

Having seen the new Hornby/Bachmann and comparing them with my old Hornby I have decided to start getting a rake of the new ones. However, after some research I am really not sure which manufacturer is making suitable cars to cover the LNER/ER circa 1903/65. Is there anyone who can provide with a succinct answer?

p.s. I did do a search of this forum.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The Bachmann cars are only applicable from 1960, as they were phased into service replacing the older traditional cars. Totally correct for the East Coast route to 1965 as this was where they were all initially allocated.

 

Earlier cars on the LNER and then ER, the specific all steel 'Queen of Scots' cars which dominated services from their introduction in 1928 are not available in Hornby's high detail versions. (The older models now in Railroad are actually based on the QoS stock, but as well as being poorer models it is a selection of just two types, parlour first and brake only.) For a lookee-likee to the 1928 cars, take the flush sided cars from the main range and remove the clip in underframe trussing; shave the rainstrips from the roof, replace with the raised panel lines of the all steel cars. This doesn't produce a completely accurate model, but in my view the excellent body sides and choice of types more than makes up for this.

 

Prior to 1928, various matchboarded cars, some on 6 wheel bogies, were in use. It may be that some of the Hornby product is applicable, but someone with in-depth knowledge wil have to advise. On the other hand you could take the view that there are few living now who can recall pre-1928 railway operations, and a fine model that is near enough is a good place to start.

[BernardTPM]

The 1928 cars are the most obvious choice for the 1930-65 period (I assume 1903 was a typo!). There's a very good thread on detailing them here, using the now Railroad series Hornby Pullmans with new Comet sides and Keen Systems bogies. By changing to the etched sides it gives you a fuller range of coach types and allows for flusher glazing.

[Forester]

Having seen the new Hornby/Bachmann and comparing them with my old Hornby I have decided to start getting a rake of the new ones. However, after some research I am really not sure which manufacturer is making suitable cars to cover the LNER/ER circa 1903/65. Is there anyone who can provide with a succinct answer?

 

There isn't a succinct answer, sadly. Pullman Cars moved frequently between Southern and Eastern (and some Western) to cover the changing requirements year by year. While some remained for many years on the longer-running Pullman trains, others seem to have gone back and forth regularly.

 

The best way to tackle this is to decide which named trains you want to run. You will find sample lists of the Pullmans used at dates close to those you are interested in fairly readily. However those kept in reserve, added on as extras, those used on the Southern on Continental Boat trains, Ocean Liner expresses etc are almost impossible to locate at any given time other than by photographic evidence. It is not like selecting locos, where types generally stuck to regions. Pullmans went wherever they were needed. The Pullman Profile books by Ford will tell you where they started off and give an idea of which ones were mostly in one region or another but no-one has yet come up with a list similar to the shed lists for locos. For one reason, many of the Pullman Company records were destroyed in the war.

 

It's not all bad news. Hornby nowadays make a real effort to put the correct Pullmans in the correct Pullman Train packs for a given date. They are not totally reliable and sometimes make mistakes putting matchboard-sided Pullmans in when they should be flush-sided or vice versa. But if you choose the Pullman train you want to model and look at the train packs Hornby have recently produced for that train for the period you want you can get a good idea of what you need if you see them for sale singly, if you don't want to buy the packs.

The other piece of good news is that it is a brave man who will dare tell you that you are wrong, whichever Pullmans you decide to use!

[Forester]

Further to the above, Ian Allan did try to keep a record of Pullman Car movements at one time.

In 1955 they recorded as allocated to the Eastern Region the following:

 

1928 Steel Type (modelled as the old Hornby -now Railroad- Pullmans)

Parlour First Cars: Agatha, Lucille, Sheila, Ursula

Brake Third Cars: Car Nos 77, 78, 79, 80

Kitchen Cars (not modelled): Belinda, Nilar, Phyllis, Thelma and Car Nos 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72.

Parlour Third Cars (not modelled exactly): Car Nos 73, 74, 75, 76.

 

1923-1927 K Type Cars (the Hornby 8-wheel lighted Pullmans flush-sided and matchboard-sides, depending on date):

Kitchen Cars: Adrian, Cynthia, Iolanthe, Lydia, Car Nos 32, 33, 58, 66

Parlour Car: Car No 64

Brake Third Cars: Car No 62, 63, 65, 161, 162, 209, 248

Hadrian Bar: Car No 59

 

No 12-wheelers were allocated to the Eastern Region at this date, as far as I can see.

 

 

 

Other Pullman types allocated to the Eastern Region in 1955 were:

 

1928-built Pullman Cars (traditional cars originally for GWR):

Kitchen Cars: Evadne, Ione, Joan, Lorraine.

Parlour Cars: Eunice, Juana.

 

1931-built Pullman Cars:

Third Class Kitchen Cars: Car Nos 81, 82

Third Class Parlour Cars: Car Nos 83, 84

 

 

Hope this helps.

[Theakerr]

Gentlemen, Thank you. This information is terrific. I have actually started converting the bogies on the old Hornby "Railroad" Pullmans, but as I said the new Pullmans do look better and I am finding that the new bogies do not run as well as the originals when close coupled without a lot of effort. I find the hook and loop method espoused by a well known model journalist is only so-so and the Keen bogies do not provide enough clearance to mount Kadees on the frame. It would help if I could find a supplier of appropriate sprung buffers. Anyway, I now know what my options are.