br2975 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 DB (S) have apparently lost the contract to shunt the two Celsa (UK) steel plants in Cardiff; namely the Tremorfa steel works and the Castle Works, better known as the Cardiff Rod Mill. . Currently, two Cl.08s are employed on these turns, with another acting as spare. DB(S) have , as far as possible used Hima-Sella R/C fitted locos, thereby allowing one man to drive and couple. Unfortunately, the work takes its toll of the locos, with slipped cranks being a major problem when moving heavy loads on unfitted wagons around sharp curves and sometimes poor visibility. Some of the locos have a history of poor performance eg 08921, which Toton seemed to find hard to cure. The poor availability could have been a deciding factor, as recently all three pilots were out of action and a Cl.66 was called in to shunt, whilst a Cl.08 could be brought from Margam, reducing their shunter allocation. The contract ends in the early hours of Saturday, 29th. January, 2010. The DB(S) "drivers" so employed (who are limited to the yard at Tidal, and the steel works complex) are to be given the opportunity to transfer under a "PT & R" agreement to the new operator, or remain with DB(S) but possibly losing several thousands of pounds per annum by returning to ground work only. The new operator is apparently GBRf. They are reported to have two locos available, neither are apparently RC fitted. It would appear that there may be some problems also, as some of the wagons used on these duties are provided by DB(S). . In addition, Tidal Sidings is a DB(S) operated yard, and will remain a DB(S) signing on point. GBRf did recently run a trial train directly into the Cardiff Rod Mill (a Cl.66 and two KFA flats IIRC) via the little used Long Dyke Jct. connection of the South Wales main line, thus avoiding Tidal Sidings Operations at the works with Cl.08s date back to 1995/96 when the then steel works owners, Allied Steel & Wire (ASW) entered into an agreement with 'Transrail'. That agreement was taken up by EWS until ASW went into liquidation in 2002. By the time Celsa (UK), a Spanish firm, bought and re-opened the plants EWS again took on the contract, but with a much reduced fleet, and DB(S) took on the job when they bought out EWS. So, if you want to catch a Cl.08 shunting one of Cardiff's steel mills, get in quick. Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacer lover Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 hey Brain how are things? sadly to hear that , allway used to look for the 08s there. any idea as to what going to replace them, cant see GBRF used two 66 there but u never know :-s regards rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 hey Brain how are things? sadly to hear that , allway used to look for the 08s there. any idea as to what going to replace them, cant see GBRF used two 66 there but u never know :-s regards rob A pair of 73s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Thumper Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 A pair of 73s? Most Likely to be honest.... Unless they can get a lease on some 08's from somwhere else... I suppose it depends on the tightness on the curves it all depends if a 73 can negotiate tight bends or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon_Eng Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Most Likely to be honest.... Unless they can get a lease on some 08's from somwhere else... I suppose it depends on the tightness on the curves it all depends if a 73 can negotiate tight bends or not. They probably can, after all they're on bogies which can pivot (and a relatively short wheelbase (for bogied rolling stock) to boot). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon_Eng Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Oh, and I found these from the DBS/EWS era on youtube: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 That YouTube footage appears familiar !!!!!!! (I filmed it !!) . A last look then at a few of the old stalwarts during the final years of EWS operation at Celsa ............. . 08752 dispels the myth of one man operation as it drags a load od 'rebar' from the Cardiff Rod Mill thro' Splott Jct. en-route to Tidal Sidings. . 08782 takes a breather whilst 'knocking out' the new scrap bay at Tremorfa. . 08854 shunts the 16" mill billet bank at Tremorfa . 08951 propels the empties from the Hitchin scrap train back into Tidal Sidings. . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 They probably can, after all they're on bogies which can pivot (and a relatively short wheelbase (for bogied rolling stock) to boot). I was joking.... They'd be a pain on the sort of shunting job that requires drivers to change ends for every movement- most likely, they'll hire in some centre-cab shunters from somewhere. There are still a lot of Sentinel/Steelman/other types about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I was joking.... They'd be a pain on the sort of shunting job that requires drivers to change ends for every movement- most likely, they'll hire in some centre-cab shunters from somewhere. There are still a lot of Sentinel/Steelman/other types about. Class 20's are another option, but the problem is this contract is a bit of a "loco-breaker" so anything hired in on a commercial contract with penalties for non-availability has to be done with the upmost confidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacer lover Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 hi allmaybe a pair of 73 that would be nice, maybe they put in 3rd rail for them lol fat controller is most likey rigth somethings with a centre-cab . as gbrf is now own by eruoport (i think ) make it be soemthing from eruope? regards rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 hi allmaybe a pair of 73 that would be nice, maybe they put in 3rd rail for them lol fat controller is most likey rigth somethings with a centre-cab . as gbrf is now own by eruoport (i think ) make it be soemthing from eruope? regards rob If they put in third-rail down there, the neighbours would nick it! GBRf are indeed part of Europorte (in turn owned by my employers, Eurotunnel), but I don't think they'd be looking to mainland Europe, but rather to somewhere in the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Sad to see DBS "loosing" this contract because there are some great guys operating these locos.The main reason for loosing the contract was cost coupled with poor locomotives released from the centre of excellence.Anyone taking on this job will have their work cut out.The grass is not always greener as Celsa will find out.Glad the gang will be TUPE'd over as they will be a great asset to GBRF.I wish them well. It will be pretty busy in that area as DBS will be running more trains from the docks.They will need a fat controller to work out all the moves. Good luck to you all ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Coming soon, Splott news What did Arnie say ? ^ ill be back ^ Will the ex EWS South Wales 08/09's be back ??? You will never know :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Coming soon, Splott news What did Arnie say ? ^ I'll be back ! ^ "Only in a re-run!" I saw 'The Running Man' too Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 It will be pretty busy in that area as DBS will be running more trains from the docks. Thinking back ....... just before Christmas, GBRf ran a Peterborough - Cardiff Rod Mill 'trial' employing a Cl.66/7 and two container flats; entering the Rod Mill by way of the Long Dyke access off the South Wales main line, thereby avoiding Tidal Sidings, where DB(S) will remain the major operator. . Could this be a means of reducing overheads by avoiding the competition at Tidal and adopting the Cardiff Rod Mill as a 'base' ? . In addition, there is talk of Tata (formerly Corus) putting some of its' steel traffic 'out to competitive tendering' which could see other operators bidding for some of the business originating from Margam and Llanwern; currently dominated by DB(S) save fopr the occasional Colas working to/from Llanwern. . This could include the Margam-Llanwern-Cardiff Docks flow ?, fit it in with an occasional trip down the Uskmouth Branch with steel from Llanwern to Birdport, for export. . GBRf have gained a foothold in South Wales. Could it be a case of watch this space ?. Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 There are a few "out of the box" options available to the new contractor from 29th. A certain chap with a Barrow Hill base has experience in supplying industrial locos for shunting. I guess you'd have to question whether radio controlled class 08s are the answer to shunting heavy steel trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 There are a few "out of the box" options available to the new contractor from 29th. A certain chap with a Barrow Hill base has experience in supplying industrial locos for shunting. I guess you'd have to question whether radio controlled class 08s are the answer to shunting heavy steel trains. I did wonder about the Barrow Hill option. 08s do seem to suffer a bit from moved cranks- the one that was used during Channel Tunnel construction at Cheriton was failed with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Remote control locos are not the answer for one reason.The person operating the remote box has no ^feel^ for the loco as he may be 100 yards away.So its far better and safer to have someone on the footplate.The reason for moved cranks is that they are not keyed plus the age of the locos.If I was running it I would run non remote locos it would increse reliability. DBS made no money on that internal contract as it was absorbed by the cost of transporting locos to TOTON. It may seem expensive to have a driver and shunter but remotes are a faulse economy.It did not work that well in ASW days but the remotes were more reliable due to better conversion quality and of course,the were properly maintained at Canton with the proper equipment and facilities. I guess Harriy's boys have been busy getting the 08's 09's ready. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 As 'catman' says when working under R/C the loco can be slow to take up the commands from the transmitter carried by the 'driver'. . Occasionally the 'driver' may flick the joystick again and the loco can then start a bit to quickly for the load. . Over on the Queen Alexandra Dock, many years ago, one loco failed to respond and took out the blocks at the end of the headshunt. . If GBRf bring in 08/09s then we'll just have to see what happens, as the 'drivers' will be the same, the condition of the locos will need to be judged. Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I was there Brian,I was called to attend a damaged step but found the loco on the blocks I was called to look at one loco at asw reported under powered,it was pulling 28 loaded wagons. I arranged for 66023 to be sent to Tidal the other week.023 had failed with 148 at AD with flat batteries in the morning.023 was the lead engine so it was sent to Tidal. The boys at tidal have great pride in what they do and have been frustrated with the junk that was sent down.It was a pleasure working with them even if Kieth is a city fan I think GBRF will find it hard if they use remotes.Don't think they will make much on that job unless Harry gives them a good loco,09003 may be sent down.It was a good loco when used at Barry dock.or will it be 08934 We ran 6 remotes at ASW a few years back,most of the repairs were collision damage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 ..............It was a pleasure working with them even if Kieth is a city fan ........... And don't I know it, we've known each other since Peter Lea infants ! Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modfather Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Time to rebuild the 13's (ducks for cover from more pointless frothing) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 You dont need one of them mate,just a good 08,not a remote one, and a decent driver and the jobs a good un Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 In the cab of the Class 08, have drivers used the series and parallel switch at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 No mate Power/ traction is not a problem on this job,its a remote issue.Ranging from loss of signal to electrical control faults caused by poor installation of the modification by you know where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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